John 1:12 But as many as received him...

[Muffled]

I Agree, like in Matthew 28:19. All authority has been "given" to me (Jesus).

In John 1:12, to those who received Him, who believed in his name, He gave authority/power to then become children of God.

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh so the investment of authority is in Himself so it is not like that.

I believe God does not gives away His power. So it is not as though we are are becoming children in our own strength or a strenght provided. Our role is passive not active.

 

[e.r.m.]

I believe that is a mistranslation. Mine says "right." I disagree. I believe He grants the ability to be children of God. I don't believe it is a right and it certainly is contigent on a person receiving Him and believing in Hiim. I still do not believe God is granting us an authority. I believe one could say that He authorizes our childhood, again His authority that He does not share or give away.

I believe since the greek says all three right/authority/power, that in this case it's a melding of all three. So in John 1:12 they would be akin to vetoing power or the wife of an adulterous husband has the right/permission to divorce him, not supernatural power like stopping the sun in the sky for a day.
But it also could be the right/authority/power discussed in

John 6:64-65 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. [65] He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”

In either case, it is God who grants this ability to the receiver and believer of Christ to then become a child of God.

 

[e.r.m.]

I believe Jesus is God in the flesh so the investment of authority is in Himself so it is not like that.

I believe God does not gives away His power. So it is not as though we are are becoming children in our own strength or a strenght provided. Our role is passive not active.

How passive, to what degree?

 

[bird]

But no, the whole Bible is not written that way.

There are limits to that.

Acts 11:28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)

There actually was a Roman Emperor named Claudius, he was succeeded by Nero.
When Jesus gave instructions to get the mule, it wasn't allegory. I think I've shown sufficient evidence to show the water in Acts 10:47-48 was physical water, and hence also applying to Mark 16:16, Matthew 28:19, and Acts 2:38.

The fact that these things actually happen in the physical does not change the fact that they are parables of other things, spiritual things. For example, Jesus healed physically many persons but it was a picture of spiritual salvation in these cases. In the case you mention with the famine and Agabus, the case continues. The Bible talks of there coming a famine for the hearing of the word of God. "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:" (Amos 8:11). This is speaking of the great tribulation period after the church age when the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from the congregations so that the people cannot hear spiritually, a result of their being disobedient during the church age. The very name Agabus points to this. It means 'locust' and locusts are parable representations of this tribulation scenario (Exo 10:14, 2 Chron 7:13, Rev 9:3). Notice that it is a severe famine in the Agabus scenario. A great famine during the great tribulation. The Roman world is a picture of believers by parable form. Romans, centurians and the like often feature positively in the gospels. Paul, for example was born a Roman citizen; a parable way of pointing out that he is a citizen in the kingdom of God, giving him certain rights. The fact that the famine happened during the reign of Claudius also points to the tribulation period. Claudius means 'lame'. Mephibosheth is a lame person in the Bible left over from the disobedient time of Saul ( a picture of the church age having been a disobedient time) and David extends his mercy to this lame person as a surviving remnant. This is how it is at the tribulation time as well, a surviving small remnant remains who reign with Christ still. Notice that in 2 Samuel 4:4 he became lame when he fled but fell, also words pointing to the tribulation scenario, as the congregations fall spiritually (Rev 18:2). The main point, and I could go on with lots of examples, but examples simply illustrate the main point, is that if you are reading the Bible as a surface text to prove your point about physical mandates, you may well miss the true spiritual point and end up taking people down the wrong way of feeling guilty for physical commandments that they didn't do, when they were not really commanded to do them by God at all. When the Gentiles received God, the Bible is careful to endorse their rightful place among God's saved persons: "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;". The Bible continues to give the following instruction relating to following physical laws, like physical circumcision and so forth: "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

 

[bird]

But no, the whole Bible is not written that way.

There are limits to that.

Then what is Psalm 78:1-2 saying? What is Mark chapter 4 saying?

 

[e.r.m.]

Hey welcome back, I was sadly thinking we were finished. I'll get back to you a little later.

 

[e.r.m.]

Then what is Psalm 78:1-2 saying? What is Mark chapter 4 saying?

Psalm 78:1-2 My people, hear my teaching; listen to the words of my mouth. [2] I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, things from of old---

It says he (Asaph) will speak in parables and it says he will utter hidden things from old. It doesn't say to what extent, or that this would be his universal form of communication, but that he would do it. God spoke through Nathan to David in the parable of the ewe lamb and then he handed down punishment, which happened exactly as He said it would. God spoke to the people through Moses in concrete terms.

Mark 4:1-34a, Jesus spoke in parables. The rest of the chapter he spoke straightforwardly, as he does in chapters 5, 6, 7. I'll reply to the bigger post later.

 

[bird]

QUOTE:Psalm 78:1-2 My people, hear my teaching; listen to the words of my mouth. [2] I will open my mouth with a parable; I will utter hidden things, things from of old---

It says he (Asaph) will speak in parables and it says he will utter hidden things from old. It doesn't say to what extent, or that this would be his universal form of communication, but that he would do it. God spoke through Nathan to David in the parable of the ewe lamb and then he handed down punishment, which happened exactly as He said it would. God spoke to the people through Moses in concrete terms.QUOTE



Sadly, you seem to have used a form of the Bible different from the King James Version. The King James Version correctly translates the word towrah to be 'law', that is 'scripture' rather than 'teaching' in the version you use. The law of God is the Bible, scripture, and this is God speaking through scripture generally, not a little teaching on the side. It is the towrah. Incidentally, Asaph means 'gatherer' and is a picture of God himself who gathers the outcasts of Israel.

 

[bird]

Mark 4:1-34a, Jesus spoke in parables. The rest of the chapter he spoke straightforwardly, as he does in chapters 5, 6, 7. I'll reply to the bigger post later.

God clues us in on the fact that he continually speaks in parables in Mark 4:34: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." Alone with the Lord, Christ's disciples get the parables explained. Think about this statement: "without a parable spake he not unto them". Notice in his explanation of how to understand all parables in Mark 4, Jesus mentions 'the word' -that is the full and complete word of God. "And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word." All parables, sounds a lot like 'all scripture', another Bible phrase, and 'all things'. All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable, etc., etc. Further, if 'the sower sows the word' is a look at how to know all parables, why is the full word of God associated with parables? Because without a parable spake he not unto them. In other words, the entire Bible is in parable form. The rules Christ lays out for interpreting parables in Mark 4 shows that the surface text is not the main idea. Try getting truth from the surface text and you don't get the true idea intended. For example, thorns are not really physical thorns but persons who hear the word and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. Big difference from briers in someone's yard.

 

[e.r.m.]

I'm trying to keep up with you at the same time as well with another person on a discussion of original sin. Tomorrow I will try to focus on yours. Have a good night.

 

[e.r.m.]

Sorry for the delay.

The fact that these things actually happen in the physical does not change the fact that they are parables of other things, spiritual things. For example, Jesus healed physically many persons but it was a picture of spiritual salvation in these cases.

Says who?

In the case you mention with the famine and Agabus, the case continues. The Bible talks of there coming a famine for the hearing of the word of God. "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:" (Amos 8:11). This is speaking of the great tribulation period after the church age when the Holy Spirit is withdrawn from the congregations so that the people cannot hear spiritually, a result of their being disobedient during the church age. The very name Agabus points to this. It means 'locust' and locusts are parable representations of this tribulation scenario (Exo 10:14, 2 Chron 7:13, Rev 9:3). Notice that it is a severe famine in the Agabus scenario. A great famine during the great tribulation. The Roman world is a picture of believers by parable form. Romans, centurians and the like often feature positively in the gospels. Paul, for example was born a Roman citizen; a parable way of pointing out that he is a citizen in the kingdom of God, giving him certain rights. The fact that the famine happened during the reign of Claudius also points to the tribulation period. Claudius means 'lame'. Mephibosheth is a lame person in the Bible left over from the disobedient time of Saul ( a picture of the church age having been a disobedient time) and David extends his mercy to this lame person as a surviving remnant. This is how it is at the tribulation time as well, a surviving small remnant remains who reign with Christ still. Notice that in 2 Samuel 4:4 he became lame when he fled but fell, also words pointing to the tribulation scenario, as the congregations fall spiritually (Rev 18:2). The main point, and I could go on with lots of examples, but examples simply illustrate the main point, is that if you are reading the Bible as a surface text to prove your point about physical mandates, you may well miss the true spiritual point and end up taking people down the wrong way of feeling guilty for physical commandments that they didn't do, when they were not really commanded to do them by God at all.

You don't know what a parable is. What you're describing are parallels comparisons. Two scriptures that not otherwise connected, but have similarities. For example
John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,

Jesus made a parallel between the two. When Jesus was telling parables, what was identified by the writers as parables, Jesus was giving an a story that was not real with a lesson to situations that are real. Jesus did use real situations to illustrate other real situation, as with the tower of Siloam, but those weren't called parables. The way you've devised to use the Bible was not used by any of the writers. It's a method concocted that suits a particular point of view, but it's nit the original point of view.

When the Gentiles received God, the Bible is careful to endorse their rightful place among God's saved persons: "And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;".

That passage didn't say how/when they were saved.

The Bible continues to give the following instruction relating to following physical laws, like physical circumcision and so forth: "Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?"

Doesn't apply to baptism or confessing Jesus as Lord, as neither were part of the mosaic law.

God clues us in on the fact that he continually speaks in parables in Mark 4:34: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." Alone with the Lord, Christ's disciples get the parables explained. Think about this statement: "without a parable spake he not unto them". Notice in his explanation of how to understand all parables in Mark 4, Jesus mentions 'the word' -that is the full and complete word of God. "And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? The sower soweth the word." All parables, sounds a lot like 'all scripture', another Bible phrase, and 'all things'. All scripture is inspired by God and is profitable, etc., etc. Further, if 'the sower sows the word' is a look at how to know all parables, why is the full word of God associated with parables? Because without a parable spake he not unto them. In other words, the entire Bible is in parable form. The rules Christ lays out for interpreting parables in Mark 4 shows that the surface text is not the main idea. Try getting truth from the surface text and you don't get the true idea intended. For example, thorns are not really physical thorns but persons who hear the word and the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. Big difference from briers in someone's yard.

It doesn't say continually, as in ongoing. It spoke in past tense, what he did up til that point. There were plenty of other examples when he didn't.

 

[kjv4me2you]

This question is directed to all our Catholic friends. But of course, all are welcomed to reply. Although my evangelical friends may disagree, my understanding of how they take this verse is that they are first taught that we are saved by "receiving Jesus as Savior" (typically in the form of a prayer, but not always) from a preacher or friend, and then with that teaching they look at John 1:12 only as a confirmation to the paradigm that has already been instilled. I speak only for my own experience, & I do not intend this as a universal statement. I personally have never met an evangelical who looked at John 1:12 and did not automatically conclude that this meant "receiving Jesus as savior", based on prior learning. I do not mean this derogatorally. Just what I've seen. I am open to being corrected if this is not the case.

My understanding from looking at the greek is that this scripture is much more basic, referring only to those who decided to take Jesus seriously, believe that God sent Him, and that he was worth paying attention to, with no immediate reference to salvation.
John 10:19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. [20] Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?” [21] But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

John 9:31-33 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. [32] Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. [33] If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”


Mark 1:21-22 They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. [22] The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law.

To my understanding, for Catholics salvation is not an event but a process.

What is your take on the phrase "But as many as received him..."?

Thank you.

This question is directed to all our Catholic friends. But of course, all are welcomed to reply. Although my evangelical friends may disagree, my understanding of how they take this verse is that they are first taught that we are saved by "receiving Jesus as Savior" (typically in the form of a prayer, but not always) from a preacher or friend, and then with that teaching they look at John 1:12 only as a confirmation to the paradigm that has already been instilled. I speak only for my own experience, & I do not intend this as a universal statement. I personally have never met an evangelical who looked at John 1:12 and did not automatically conclude that this meant "receiving Jesus as savior", based on prior learning. I do not mean this derogatorally. Just what I've seen. I am open to being corrected if this is not the case.

My understanding from looking at the greek is that this scripture is much more basic, referring only to those who decided to take Jesus seriously, believe that God sent Him, and that he was worth paying attention to, with no immediate reference to salvation.
John 10:19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. [20] Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?” [21] But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

John 9:31-33 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will. [32] Nobody has ever heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. [33] If this man were not from God, he could do nothing.”


Mark 1:21-22 They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. [22] The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law.

To my understanding, for Catholics salvation is not an event but a process.

What is your take on the phrase "But as many as received him..."?

Thank you.

I was wondering if you have considered "to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that belive on his name" this would not be a process but an event.
Such as a day of salvation when you experience YHWH-YaH's power that made you one of the sons of God.
All the Son's of God have this moment to always remember.

willyah

 

[e.r.m.]

I was wondering if you have considered "to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that belive on his name" this would not be a process but an event.

Nice screen name.

Depends on how you see it. I think being given the power and then becoming sons of God are two separate events. I believe the whole is a process.

Such as a day of salvation when you experience YHWH-YaH's power that made you one of the sons of God.
All the Son's of God have this moment to always remember.

willyah

There is a school of thought called salvation by experience, where people attribute their salvation to a religious experience. I heard this recently from my mom's friend. When I started asking her for scriptural backing for her belief on how she was saved, she gave me a bewildered look, "Huh?".

No one in the NT ever described getting saved or their sins forgiven this way.

 

[kjv4me2you]

There is a school of thought called salvation by experience, where people attribute their salvation to a religious experience. I heard this recently from my mom's friend. When I started asking her for scriptural backing for her belief on how she was saved, she gave me a bewildered look, "Huh?".

Nice screen name.


Depends on how you see it. I think being given the power and then becoming sons of God are two separate events. I believe the whole is a process.

There is a school of thought called salvation by experience, where people attribute their salvation to a religious experience. I heard this recently from my mom's friend. When I started asking her for scriptural backing for her belief on how she was saved, she gave me a bewildered look, "Huh?".

kjv4me2you-reply:

(John 3:3 KJV) Jesus answered and said unto Nicodemus, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(John 3:4 KJV) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Nicodemus was asking can a man have two birthdays and Jesus' answer was yes. One birthday is of the flesh and the other birthday or day of salvation is of the spirit by the Spirit: thereby making for the new birth of the spirit of man into one of the sons or daughters of God

(John 3:5 KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(John 3:6 KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The birthday of the mortal flesh occurs usually the day her water breaks: whereby she gives birth to mortal flesh that has an appointment with death. (Heb 9:27 KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The birthday of a born again spirit occurs by the Spirit that incorruptible word of God seed which liveth and abideth for ever.

(1 Pet 1:23 KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

(Luke 8:11 KJV) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

(John 3:7 KJV) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

(John 3:8 KJV) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

The birthday of the mortal flesh is an event that occurs on one specific day and is celebrated yearly on that eventful day and so it is with the spirit born again by the Spirit that also is a one time event on a specific day known as the day of salvation.

(2 Cor 6:2 KJV) (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

Just as a mother helps her new born mortal son or daughter by causing them to breath and by feeding her offspring her milk all of which occurs also on that specific born again birthday.

The same is true regarding the day of salvation of a persons spirit being born again by the Spirit.
It is all of YHWH-YaH on that day the spirit is born again of God a Spirit ( John 4:28) .


(1 Pet 1:23 KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

willyah



No one in the NT ever described getting saved or their sins forgiven this way.

SAVED AND SINS FORGIVEN
(1 Pet 4:18 KJV) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

(Acts 4:12 KJV) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

(Luke 5:20 KJV) And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

(Luke 7:47 KJV) Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

(Luke 7:48 KJV) And Jesus said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

(1 John 2:12 KJV) I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

willyah

 

[e.r.m.]

SAVED AND SINS FORGIVEN
(1 Pet 4:18 KJV) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

(Acts 4:12 KJV) Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

(Luke 5:20 KJV) And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

(Luke 7:47 KJV) Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

(Luke 7:48 KJV) And Jesus said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

(1 John 2:12 KJV) I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

willyah

I wish you would be a little more organized in your presentation. You're all over the place and hard to follow. I'm not telling you how to present, but it would be helpful to me if you match each set of scriptures with an explanation. I will do my best to respond.

kjv4me2you-reply: (John 3:3 KJV) Jesus answered and said unto Nicodemus, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(John 3:4 KJV) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Nicodemus was asking can a man have two birthdays and Jesus' answer was yes. One birthday is of the flesh and the other birthday or day of salvation is of the spirit by the Spirit: thereby making for the new birth of the spirit of man into one of the sons or daughters of God

(John 3:5 KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(John 3:6 KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The birthday of the mortal flesh occurs usually the day her water breaks: whereby she gives birth to mortal flesh that has an appointment with death. (Heb 9:27 KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This explanation of John 3 is the standard explanation from those who espouse your belief system, however there is at least one fatal flaw.
John 3:5 KJV Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus is saying one CANNOT enter the kingdom of God unless they born both of water and Spirit. If as you say is true, that being born of water in John 3:5 means physical birth instead of water baptism, then Jesus is making being born physically a requirement of entering the kingdom of God. Are you saying that Jesus is saying that being born physically with the mother's water breaking is a requirement of entering the kingdom of God?

I couldn't copy and paste the other scriptures. With the scriptures that refer to saved by His name and His word, they refer only to the source of salvation, not how it's done. With the scriptures you listed on faith, they do not say faith alone. Repentance and confessing Jesus as Lord with one's mouth are still a part and go beyond just having faith.

2 Corinthians 6:2 fits perfectly with Acts 2:38, 41. They were water baptized for the reasons Peter said to be water baptized, for the forgiveness of sins, and to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That was the event of their salvation. I wish you would be a little more organized in your presentation. You're all over the place and hard to follow. I'm not telling you how to present, but it would be helpful to me if you match each set of scriptures with an explanation. I will so my best to respond.

kjv4me2you-reply: (John 3:3 KJV) Jesus answered and said unto Nicodemus, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


(John 3:4 KJV) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Nicodemus was asking can a man have two birthdays and Jesus' answer was yes. One birthday is of the flesh and the other birthday or day of salvation is of the spirit by the Spirit: thereby making for the new birth of the spirit of man into one of the sons or daughters of God


(John 3:5 KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


(John 3:6 KJV) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


The birthday of the mortal flesh occurs usually the day her water breaks: whereby she gives birth to mortal flesh that has an appointment with death. (Heb 9:27 KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

This explanation of John 3 is the standard explanation from those who espouse your belief system, however there is at least one fatal flaw.

John 3:5 KJV Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Jesus is saying one CANNOT enter the kingdom of God unless they born both of water and Spirit. If as you say is true, that being born of water in John 3:5 means physical birth instead of water baptism, then Jesus is making being born physically a requirement of entering the kingdom of God. Are you saying that Jesus is saying that being born physically with the mother's water breaking is a requirement of entering the kingdom of God?


I couldn't copy and paste the other scriptures. With the scriptures that refer to saved by His name and His word, they refer only to the source of salvation, not how it's done. With the scriptures you listed on faith, they do not say faith alone. Repentance and confessing Jesus as Lord with one's mouth are still a part and go beyond just having faith.


2 Corinthians 6:2 fits perfectly with Acts 2:38, 41. They were water baptized for the reasons Peter said to be water baptized, for the forgiveness of sins, and to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.that was the event of their salvation.

John 4:28 has nothing to do with your point.

There's no example of anyone in the NT having an amazing powerful spiritual experience, and them being listed as saved as a result. There is no teaching in the NT that anyone would have an amazing powerful spiritual experience and be considered saved as a result.
This is just another one of those made up teachings.

I'm giving you a second chance to provide an example of such.

 

[kjv4me2you]

I wish you would be a little more organized in your presentation. You're all over the place and hard to follow. I'm not telling you how to present, but it would be helpful to me if you match each set of scriptures with an explanation. I will do my best to respond.
This explanation of John 3 is the standard explanation from those who espouse your belief system, however there is at least one fatal flaw.
John 3:5 KJV Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jesus is saying one CANNOT enter the kingdom of God unless they born both of water and Spirit. If as you say is true, that being born of water in John 3:5 means physical birth instead of water baptism, then Jesus is making being born physically a requirement of entering the kingdom of God. Are you saying that Jesus is saying that being born physically with the mother's water breaking is a requirement of entering the kingdom of God?

I couldn't copy and paste the other scriptures. With the scriptures that refer to saved by His name and His word, they refer only to the source of salvation, not how it's done. With the scriptures you listed on faith, they do not say faith alone. Repentance and confessing Jesus as Lord with one's mouth are still a part and go beyond just having faith.

2 Corinthians 6:2 fits perfectly with Acts 2:38, 41. They were water baptized for the reasons Peter said to be water baptized, for the forgiveness of sins, and to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. That was the event of their salvation. I wish you would be a little more organized in your presentation. You're all over the place and hard to follow. I'm not telling you how to present, but it would be helpful to me if you match each set of scriptures with an explanation. I will so my best to respond.

This explanation of John 3 is the standard explanation from those who espouse your belief system, however there is at least one fatal flaw.

John 3:5 KJV Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Jesus is saying one CANNOT enter the kingdom of God unless they born both of water and Spirit. If as you say is true, that being born of water in John 3:5 means physical birth instead of water baptism, then Jesus is making being born physically a requirement of entering the kingdom of God. Are you saying that Jesus is saying that being born physically with the mother's water breaking is a requirement of entering the kingdom of God?


I couldn't copy and paste the other scriptures. With the scriptures that refer to saved by His name and His word, they refer only to the source of salvation, not how it's done. With the scriptures you listed on faith, they do not say faith alone. Repentance and confessing Jesus as Lord with one's mouth are still a part and go beyond just having faith.


2 Corinthians 6:2 fits perfectly with Acts 2:38, 41. They were water baptized for the reasons Peter said to be water baptized, for the forgiveness of sins, and to receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.that was the event of their salvation.

John 4:28 has nothing to do with your point.

There's no example of anyone in the NT having an amazing powerful spiritual experience, and them being listed as saved as a result. There is no teaching in the NT that anyone would have an amazing powerful spiritual experience and be considered saved as a result.
This is just another one of those made up teachings.

I'm giving you a second chance to provide an example of such.

How many chances has YHWH-YaH given you?

 

[e.r.m.]

How many chances has YHWH-YaH given you?

I didn't mean it like that, sorry.

I mean that it's just hard to substantiate this belief without a scriptural example.

 

[kjv4me2you]

I didn't mean it like that, sorry.

I mean that it's just hard to substantiate this belief without a scriptural example.

It is hard to know in a forum, in what light something is said. When I put forth my interpretation, compared to how someone else may interpret the same verse. It is not a challenge of the persons intelligence per say but it is my understanding of the scriptures compared to theirs.
Perhaps this will help in our future discussing of scripture .
(2 Tim 2:15 KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

willyah

 

[e.r.m.]

It is hard to know in a forum, in what light something is said. When I put forth my interpretation, compared to how someone else may interpret the same verse. It is not a challenge of the persons intelligence per say but it is my understanding of the scriptures compared to theirs.
Perhaps this will help in our future discussing of scripture .
(2 Tim 2:15 KJV) Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

willyah

With careful attention we can see the authors' understanding of what they wrote. Their understanding is the only one that counts. I agree with your scripture and I think this one is good as well.
2 Peter 1:19-21 KJV We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[kjv4me2you]

With careful attention we can see the authors' understanding of what they wrote. Their understanding is the only one that counts. I agree with your scripture and I think this one is good as well.
2 Peter 1:19-21 KJV We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20] Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

(1 Cor 14:32 KJV) And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

The prophet John the Baptist and the prophet Jesus did not interpret scriptural prophecy privately they both had the spirit of Christ in them.

Jesus the prophet = Peter preached it in (Acts 3:23 KJV) And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Jesus was anointed at about age 30 with the spirit Son Christ =(Luke 3:22 KJV) And the Holy Ghost = spirit Son Christ descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

(Luke 3:22 KJV) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased


Jesus said of John the Baptist=(Luke 7:28 KJV) For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

(Mat 11:14 KJV) And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

John Baptist never interpreted scripture privately because he had the spirit Son Christ in him from his mothers womb =Luke 1:15 KJV) For he shall be great in the sight of YHWH-YaH, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

The believer today has the spirit Son Christ in them.

CHRIST IN ME A GENTILE
(Col 1:27 KJV) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is CHRIST IN YOU, the hope of glory:

A believer is never alone nor can a Christ taught believer privately interpret any scripture.
(John 14:26 KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you


2 Peter 1:19-21 is speaking to those Hebrew who were not born again therefore they were no longer guided or taught by the spirit Son Christ.

willyah