John 14:6

[Hawkins]

An important controversy in Christianity is the interpretation of whether or not Jesus made exclusive claims where He envisaged no one could come to God except through Him, or whether a biblical theology should allow for the validity of other religions. An important verse used by Christian exclusivists to justify their theology is John 14:6 where Jesus speaks to His Disciples:

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What is the best way to understand John 14:6 and why?

It is all about a mathematical model.

With freewill granted to angels, using Law as a measurement tool there will be 2/3 of these angels passing the Final Judgment to enter the final Heaven.
With freewill granted to humans at a much larger degree, using the same set of Law as a measurement tool there will be theoretically less than 1/3 humans passing the Final Judgment to enter the final Heaven.

However with the interaction between humans and angels (angels are present at all establishments from Eden to Earth to the Final Heaven), the 1/3 more capable and more intelligent fallen angels cast bad influence to humans all the times that as an end result no humans are expected to pass the Final Judgment. This is Satan's goal to screw up God's project. Satan directed humans to go the down path. Till Noah it's "proved" under witnesses that humans have no hope to be saved (an alternative expression of passing the Final Judgment). Mankind as a whole shall thus be destroyed by a flood as the purpose of planet earth as field of human soul harvesting is defeated.

With Jesus' self sacrifice at a certain point of history, it makes it possible that humans no longer need to be judged by Law at all. They are instead judged by Jesus/God in terms of a series of covenants. With the judgment of covenants instead of Law, there will be less than 1/3 humans saved through the narrow gate. That's why without Jesus than no humans can be saved as they will all fail the judgment of Law (only the 2/3 angels can pass such a judgment). With Jesus then some are saved through the narrow gate, they are all by means of Jesus' self sacrifice. That's why Jesus remains the only way for any humans to go to the Final Heaven.

 

[Dogknox20]

It is all about a mathematical model.

With freewill granted to angels, using Law as a measurement tool there will be 2/3 of these angels passing the Final Judgment to enter the final Heaven.
With freewill granted to humans at a much larger degree, using the same set of Law as a measurement tool there will be theoretically less than 1/3 humans passing the Final Judgment to enter the final Heaven.

However with the interaction between humans and angels (angels are present at all establishments from Eden to Earth to the Final Heaven), the 1/3 more capable and more intelligent fallen angels cast bad influence to humans all the times that as an end result no humans are expected to pass the Final Judgment. This is Satan's goal to screw up God's project. Satan directed humans to go the down path. Till Noah it's "proved" under witnesses that humans have no hope to be saved (an alternative expression of passing the Final Judgment). Mankind as a whole shall thus be destroyed by a flood as the purpose of planet earth as field of human soul harvesting is defeated.

With Jesus' self sacrifice at a certain point of history, it makes it possible that humans no longer need to be judged by Law at all. They are instead judged by Jesus/God in terms of a series of covenants. With the judgment of covenants instead of Law, there will be less than 1/3 humans saved through the narrow gate. That's why without Jesus than no humans can be saved as they will all fail the judgment of Law (only the 2/3 angels can pass such a judgment). With Jesus then some are saved through the narrow gate, they are all by means of Jesus' self sacrifice. That's why Jesus remains the only way for any humans to go to the Final Heaven.

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Hawkins Good to meet you..
I look at it this way... God is perfect he does everything perfectly.. If he was NOT perfect he would not be God! God built Adam the first man perfectly.. When he made man he made man in "His (God') image". Scriptures tell us "God is Love"! For man to love perfectly; God had to give us free will, the choice to: Love or NOT to love. If God forced us to love then our love would not be real love and God would not be perfect!

Hawkins Adam the first perfect man FREELY of his own free choice decided NOT to Love; God or the Woman God put with Adam! He made a choice to sin..
"The love of God is to do what he commands"!

Adam was removed from Paradise because he did not have love! Only those who LOVE can enter Paradise! Adam corrupted God' perfect creation; He brought Sin into God' creation! All of us; "Hawkins you included" are the descendance of Adam! We are Adams children! Wait... there is more...
Jesus is the second Perfect man to be born; Jesus was without sin also! Jesus freely made a choice "He did not sin"! Sin could NOT hold Jesus in the grave "The wages of Sin is Death"! Jesus cannot die again simply because NO ONE can die twice! Here is the good part... IF...

Hawkins if we get our sorry sass IMMERSED into the risen Body of Jesus we also will never die we also will live eternally! About the Angels... Satan has already been Judged he cannot love, he is full of Hate, he hates you Jesus and God! Satan tries all manner of ways to get man to sin! He even made many churches to teach twisted truth! These many "Anti-Christs" cmes alone telling lies that men love to hear!

 

[Hawkins]

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Hawkins Good to meet you..
I look at it this way... God is perfect he does everything perfectly.. If he was NOT perfect he would not be God! God built Adam the first man perfectly.. When he made man he made man in "His (God') image". Scriptures tell us "God is Love"! For man to love perfectly; God had to give us free will, the choice to: Love or NOT to love. If God forced us to love then our love would not be real love and God would not be perfect!

Hawkins Adam the first perfect man FREELY of his own free choice decided NOT to Love; God or the Woman God put with Adam! He made a choice to sin..
"The love of God is to do what he commands"!

Adam was removed from Paradise because he did not have love! Only those who LOVE can enter Paradise! Adam corrupted God' perfect creation; He brought Sin into God' creation! All of us; "Hawkins you included" are the descendance of Adam! We are Adams children! Wait... there is more...
Jesus is the second Perfect man to be born; Jesus was without sin also! Jesus freely made a choice "He did not sin"! Sin could NOT hold Jesus in the grave "The wages of Sin is Death"! Jesus cannot die again simply because NO ONE can die twice! Here is the good part... IF...

Hawkins if we get our sorry sass IMMERSED into the risen Body of Jesus we also will never die we also will live eternally! About the Angels... Satan has already been Judged he cannot love, he is full of Hate, he hates you Jesus and God! Satan tries all manner of ways to get man to sin! He even made many churches to teach twisted truth! These many "Anti-Christs" cmes alone telling lies that men love to hear!

What is perfection! Please give a definition.

Perfection refers to how a design sticks to its purpose. So you need to first understand the purpose of everything in order to call it perfect!. God is perfect. The problem is humans may fail to know the purpose of His design!

That said. Freewill is a design following rules. Freewill in the end means an entity is given the ability to choose to accept God and to reject God. Mathematics is another design. By the expected outcome of statistics and probabilities (i.e., mathematics), both angels and humans will thus divide. The purpose of earth is thus for humans to divide.

 

[Dogknox20]

What is perfection! Please give a definition.

Perfection refers to how a design sticks to its purpose. So you need to first understand the purpose of everything in order to call it perfect!. God is perfect. The problem is humans may fail to know the purpose of His design!

That said. Freewill is a design following rules. Freewill in the end means an entity is given the ability to choose to accept God and to reject God. Mathematics is another design. By the expected outcome of statistics and probabilities (i.e., mathematics), both angels and humans will thus divide. The purpose of earth is thus for humans to divide.

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Hawkins You ask; what is Perfection then you give the definition!?
I think you read to much into it.. "God is LOVE!"
God made man in his image.. ONLY..

Hawkins only man can love.. Horse, Pig, Dog, Chicken, Snail, Cats, Grasshoppers, Ants etc... cannot love! Man loves or hates it is a free choice!.. "Giving of self for another.. IS LOVE"! Can't love if not giving! Can't sell love!

Jesus freely Died for us.. He gave us his Body his Life his Divinity completely in PERFECT LOVE!

 

[Muffled]

I fully agree. There will always be new Revelations from God which will vary according to the needs of the times.
God never leaves humanity alone

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

I don't believe God did anything with the B man.

 

[Muffled]

I do not know how you understand the meaning of meditation, but focusing on God is meditation. 1 Corinthians 2:9-10

I believe what you said is in agreement with what I said.

 

[Muffled]

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

I believe the question is: What did Thomas see. I believe he saw Jesus whose body had died standing before him, alive. That was enough for Thomas to believe He is God in the flesh.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't believe God did anything with the B man.

We all have our beliefs. I believe that God spoke to Baha'u'llah through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gezellig]

“No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Those who want an approved relationship with God must accept Jesus’ unique role. They do so by praying to God in Jesus’ name, thus showing that they recognize Jesus Christ’s authority. (John 15:16) They also acknowledge that salvation is possible only because of Jesus.—Acts 4:12; Philippians 2:8-11.

 

[Trailblazer]

“No man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

Jesus is not the only one who ever said something like that, so why should we believe what Jesus said and ignore what other Messengers of God have said?

 

[Dogknox20]

I believe the question is: What did Thomas see. I believe he saw Jesus whose body had died standing before him, alive. That was enough for Thomas to believe He is God in the flesh.

AND.... Jesus told Thomas.. Those who do not believe Jesus is God...are NOT blessed!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

AND.... Jesus told Thomas.. Those who do not believe Jesus is God...are NOT blessed!

Link please?

 

[Dogknox20]

Reply to #412
AND.... Jesus told Thomas.. Those who do not believe Jesus is God...are NOT blessed!
Hello ben d you ask for the link...
Here it is.. John 20
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Clearly those who have NOT seen Jesus yet believe "Jesus is God" are Blessed; Thomas has seen Jesus and he believes "Jesus is God"!
ben d Those who have NOT seen Jesus and still reject "Jesus is God" CANNOT be Blessed.. ONLY those people who believe Jesus is God as Thomas and have not seen Jesus as Thomas has are the better; they are the blessed!
Those people today who do not believe Jesus is God...CANNOT be blessed!

 

[Dogknox20]

Link please?

Read #413 above

 

[2ndpillar]

I don't believe God did anything with the B man.

The "B man" fulfills part of Matthew 7:15, as being one of the false prophets. The "B man" was a Muslim, who believe in a mythical lush trading center of Mecca, where Abraham, Solomon, and Eve supposedly lived. In the early 7th century, as with today, there was no lush Mecca, with fruit orchards and canals, and it was never a trading center. There is no historical evidence for a Mhmd (Mohammad), in the area of Mecca in the early 7th century, and most of the traditions of Islam came out of the area of present day Iraq (once part of Persia), and written by sons of Persians in the 9th and 10th century. Islam is based on false narratives. Whatever "B man" says, it has the same weight as that of the false prophet Paul. Not much. The false prophets are part of God's foreshadowed history. They provide a "broad" "way" to "destruction" (Matthew 7:18), whether in the form of a mythical or real person.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Reply to #412
AND.... Jesus told Thomas.. Those who do not believe Jesus is God...are NOT blessed!
Hello ben d you ask for the link...
Here it is.. John 20
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Clearly those who have NOT seen Jesus yet believe "Jesus is God" are Blessed; Thomas has seen Jesus and he believes "Jesus is God"!
ben d Those who have NOT seen Jesus and still reject "Jesus is God" CANNOT be Blessed.. ONLY those people who believe Jesus is God as Thomas and have not seen Jesus as Thomas has are the better; they are the blessed!
Those people today who do not believe Jesus is God...CANNOT be blessed!

I do not see where anyone said that all those who have not seen Jesus, yet they believe in Him as Savior are not blessed because they don't acknowledge Jesus is God. You are reading that into the words "My Lord and my God".

 

[Dogknox20]

I do not see where anyone said that all those who have not seen Jesus, yet they believe in Him as Savior are not blessed because they don't acknowledge Jesus is God. You are reading that into the words "My Lord and my God".

.
Hello ben d I hope all is well...
You don't see .? Historical FACT.. Christians believe Jesus is God; Thomas is a Christian! Christians believe the scriptures they do NOT twist the words of God!
You ARE a believer or you are NOT.. You can't sit on the fence! You reject what Christians have always believed and taught, then you are NOT Christian!
Historical fact: Arius WAS a Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God; Christians thus rejected Arius!
"My Lord and my God"! Jesus replied; Understand this; Blessed are those who have NOT seen me and yet believe as you do!" Clearly those who reject Jesus is "Lord and God" are NOT blessed you can't read it any other way!

ben d You believe adding the letter "A" to John 1 is NOT reading into it!? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "A" god.
FACT: There is ONLY ONE GOD! "A" god means more then ONE a lesser god or greater god it still means MORE THEN ONE GOD! ! Christians reject many gods the scriptures tell you throughout them there is only one; all who have more then one god worship bulls, fire, money, frogs, calves ets.. they are NOT Christian! NOT ONE....

ben d not one of the 60 plus scripture interpreters have the letter "A" in John 1! The letter "A" was added to the NWT 1800 years AFTER Jesus!
THINK... Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was on the Cross that Jesus destroyed death, Jesus then restored life by rising! Satan would never put on any of his churches a cross of any kind, he would never have his followers display crosses! Christians use the "Cross" to show the whole world they are Christ Followers it is their symbol, they are Christian because Jesus is God!
All non-Christian churches rejects the cross; All non-Christian churches reject Jesus is God!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

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Hello ben d I hope all is well...
You don't see .? Historical FACT.. Christians believe Jesus is God; Thomas is a Christian! Christians believe the scriptures they do NOT twist the words of God!
You ARE a believer or you are NOT.. You can't sit on the fence! You reject what Christians have always believed and taught, then you are NOT Christian!
Historical fact: Arius WAS a Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God; Christians thus rejected Arius!
"My Lord and my God"! Jesus replied; Understand this; Blessed are those who have NOT seen me and yet believe as you do!" Clearly those who reject Jesus is "Lord and God" are NOT blessed you can't read it any other way!

ben d You believe adding the letter "A" to John 1 is NOT reading into it!? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was "A" god.
FACT: There is ONLY ONE GOD! "A" god means more then ONE a lesser god or greater god it still means MORE THEN ONE GOD! ! Christians reject many gods the scriptures tell you throughout them there is only one; all who have more then one god worship bulls, fire, money, frogs, calves ets.. they are NOT Christian! NOT ONE....

ben d not one of the 60 plus scripture interpreters have the letter "A" in John 1! The letter "A" was added to the NWT 1800 years AFTER Jesus!
THINK... Satan was defeated by the Cross, it was on the Cross that Jesus destroyed death, Jesus then restored life by rising! Satan would never put on any of his churches a cross of any kind, he would never have his followers display crosses! Christians use the "Cross" to show the whole world they are Christ Followers it is their symbol, they are Christian because Jesus is God!
All non-Christian churches rejects the cross; All non-Christian churches reject Jesus is God!

I am well thank you Dogknox20, I hope you are too.

Jesus said in John 14:12: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

So two things here, Jesus saying He was going to the Father implies, does it not, that He is not exactly the same in His incarnate state as the Father, and secondly, all His earthly miraculous powers are not unique to Him, others can do it too, even greater, if they have faith in the Son, and by extension the Father.

So it is not just a simple 'Jesus is God', or that 'Jesus is merely the Son of God', there is great mystery. I refer you to two scriptural pieces that may help to understand more deeply the mystery.

First... Corinthians 6:19. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own.

Second.... 1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” the things God has prepared for those who love him.

So if we contemplate these quotes, we find that the source of you and myself is God, we are expressions of God, yet using all our body's perceptive ability, we can not know our own source, though if we submit to our Father with all our heart, mind, and soul in love, then we will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Lastly, if you believe that Jesus is the same as God for whatever reason, and another not, so be it, we should not waste too much time arguing about whether some scripture is meant to be taken literally, or metaphorically, or as a simile, or a parable, etc., the bottom line is that the straight path we tread is not easy, for the Kingdom is within, and understanding is not in words, it is a case of actually realizing the full potential of our soul to be the perfect expression of God, the source of what and who we truly are. Amen.

 

[Dogknox20]

I am well thank you Dogknox20, I hope you are too.

Jesus said in John 14:12: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

So two things here, Jesus saying He was going to the Father implies, does it not, that He is not exactly the same in His incarnate state as the Father, and secondly, all His earthly miraculous powers are not unique to Him, others can do it too, even greater, if they have faith in the Son, and by extension the Father.

So it is not just a simple 'Jesus is God', or that 'Jesus is merely the Son of God', there is great mystery. I refer you to two scriptural pieces that may help to understand more deeply the mystery.

First... Corinthians 6:19. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own.

Second.... 1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: “What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived” the things God has prepared for those who love him.

So if we contemplate these quotes, we find that the source of you and myself is God, we are expressions of God, yet using all our body's perceptive ability, we can not know our own source, though if we submit to our Father with all our heart, mind, and soul in love, then we will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Lastly, if you believe that Jesus is the same as God for whatever reason, and another not, so be it, we should not waste too much time arguing about whether some scripture is meant to be taken literally, or metaphorically, or as a simile, or a parable, etc., the bottom line is that the straight path we tread is not easy, for the Kingdom is within, and understanding is not in words, it is a case of actually realizing the full potential of our soul to be the perfect expression of God, the source of what and who we truly are. Amen.

.
You quote scriptures.... Look at this one...
Hebrews 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

ben d Jesus was born as a man so he could die as a man! ONLY God is perfect; Jesus the PERFECT MAN died, being PERFECT he rose from death; death could not hold him he was perfect, he was without sin!
Thomas is a CHRISTIAN he believes Jesus is GOD! Christians believe and TEACH Jesus is God; Jesus tells you in the scriptures..(Scriptures you MUST REJECT) all who believe as Thomas are blessed! Thus: Logic alone tells you.. All (you) who reject Jesus are NOT blessed!

ben d Jesus rose from death now all who are IMMERSED "ADDED" to the body of Jesus will also rise from death!
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Arius WAS a Christian until he taught Jesus is NOT God! Arius was rejected by Christians because Christians teach "Jesus is God" they always have! Satan rejects Jesus and so do you!

 

[Dogknox20]

I believe the question is: What did Thomas see. I believe he saw Jesus whose body had died standing before him, alive. That was enough for Thomas to believe He is God in the flesh.

Yes and all who believe today as Thomas did back 2000 years ago are blessed! All who reject "Jesus is God" are NOT blessed!