Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...

[Kenny]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

Its worth thinking about when considering what the right to free speech is and what it is for. The framing of the question "Why does your right to free speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended?" could be modified to replace 'Trans' with many other groups of people.

Suppose we are talking about cancer patients: Why does our right to free speech trump a cancer patient's right not to be offended? It rumps because sometimes in order to think you have to be offensive. Definitely I agree with Bill Moyer's criticism of what the president of the U. of Fresno said. Disrespect is included in the right to free speech and is part of it.

Or we could be talking about a politician. The right to disrespect them in our speech is a protected right. That is true.

 

[stvdv]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

Many people using free speech to disrespect others are just exposing their own ignorance. Knowing this, one need not take such people serious.

e.g.:
If you tell someone "you are stupid". It can easily be proven that this is not true

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What I don't get, we've agreed we can't say certain things about certain individuals/groups in certain situations, but when it comes to trans we're gonna draw the line and take to whqt the stupid, knee jerking biy who cried wolf has to say on the subject?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And what does this have to do with psychology? Just to ignore it and proclaim your rights to be a jerk take precedence over people with a medical diagnosis?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here's a good example. I once made a typo on my phone and it came out as a racial slur. It was correct for someone to notice this and point it out to me. But what I'm reading here is we shouldn't care, based on free speech rights, when people want to harass and abuse transpeople.
It's a double standard. It's hypocrisy.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Far more often than not, framing the usage of pronouns matching trans people's gender as a "free speech" issue strikes me as a red herring. In most settings and contexts where misgendering a trans person would not be allowed, one wouldn't be allowed to misgender a cis person either or go out of their way to harass or offend coworkers, classmates, students, etc. Professional and formal settings, which include universities and schools, don't have to abide by free speech laws to the same extent as a public setting does. Not allowing a professor to misgender students merely adds one more rule of courtesy to a long, age-old list of rules and conventions.

A litmus test I like using is this: Whenever someone presents a scenario where they believe a person should be able to freely misgender trans people in a given setting, I ask them whether referring to a cis man as "she" or an adult as "kid," among other examples, would be appropriate or allowed. If not, then the issue is not about public free speech laws; it's about rules of conduct in a professional or otherwise specific setting that differs from a public space such as a street or place of protest.

 

[Watchmen]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

Wonderful interview!

 

[anna.]

Obnoxious interviewing Pretentious. What did they even accomplish in this?

 

[Debater Slayer]

What I don't get, we've agreed we can't say certain things about certain individuals/groups in certain situations, but when it comes to trans we're gonna draw the line and take to whqt the stupid, knee jerking biy who cried wolf has to say on the subject?

Bill Maher is a vitriolically anti-religious, highly dismissive neoliberal. Jordan Peterson now works for the Daily Wire—a blatantly biased, ideologically slanted outlet that sows demonization and tribalism—while railing against "ideology" even though he works for such an outlet and also promulgates overgeneralized misrepresentations of groups with whom he disagrees, such as Marxists and "trans activists," both of whom he talks about as if they were uniform groups consisting of people who held the exact same views.

I would actually be more surprised if an interview involving both of these men were not mostly unproductive. Thankfully, both of them are far from being the most popular public figures among younger people (or any other age group, really).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Bill Maher is a vitriolically anti-religious, highly dismissive neoliberal. Jordan Peterson now works for the Daily Wire—a blatantly biased, ideologically slanted outlet that sows demonization and tribalism—while railing against "ideology" even though he works for such an outlet and also promulgates overgeneralized misrepresentations of groups with whom he disagrees, such as Marxists and "trans activists," both of whom he talks about as if they were uniform groups consisting of people who held the exact same views.

I would actually be more surprised if an interview involving both of these men were not mostly unproductive. Thankfully, both of them are far from being the most popular public figures among younger people (or any other age group, really).

I was referring to Patterson claiming he was going to get fired over Canada's hate speech laws. It didn't happen, yet he has the gaul to whine and cry and throw his years long hissy fit over trans people as if he's fighting for something that actually matters amd pretend this same exact rule exists with many other words and peoples.
Maher, he has some good one liners, I enjoy watching the discussion panels, I appreciate he has guests from across the political spectrum, he has a few good points, but that's it. I can't stand the rest of him. I put his stand up down with that Aussie who gives an outline of her act at the beginning.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I was referring to Patterson claiming he was going to get fired over Canada's hate speech laws. It didn't happen, yet he has the gaul to whine and cry and throw his years long hissy fit over trans people as if he's fighting for something that actually matters amd pretend this same exact rule exists with many other words and peoples.

I'm aware of his misrepresentation of Bill C-16. What I also find unfortunate about that situation is that he has only become more conspicuously tribalistic and more overt in his demonization of certain groups over the years. The man seems deeply bitter and angry, and his social media posts only further demonstrate this.

Maher, he has some good one liners, I enjoy watching the discussion panels, I appreciate he has guests from across the political spectrum, he has a few good points, but that's it. I can't stand the rest of him. I put his stand up down with that Aussie who gives an outline of her act at the beginning.

Yeah, I just don't find his few good moments worth putting up with the rest of his content.

 

[F1fan]

Many people using free speech to disrespect others are just exposing their own ignorance. Knowing this, one need not take such people serious.

e.g.:
If you tell someone "you are stupid". It can easily be proven that this is not true

To my mind rights don't exist to be abused. They are for citizens to use their rights responsibly. The more citizens that abuse rights, the more society will decide there need to be limits.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

Hey Kenny. I'll limit my comments to that particular video, rather than larger comments about the actors. I liked it too! Thanks for sharing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yeah, I just don't find his few good moments worth putting up with the rest of his content.

If it wasn't for his guests and discussion panels I'd nothing watchable in him.

I'm aware of his misrepresentation of Bill C-16. What I also find unfortunate about that situation is that he has only become more conspicuously tribalistic and more overt in his demonization of certain groups over the years. The man seems deeply bitter and angry, and his social media posts only further demonstrate this.

At times I wonder if he's just doing it for the money. No doubt the money from this has far exceeded anything hed get as just a teacher amd shrink.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Free speech absolutists have a right to offend -- and the targets of their invective equally have a right to be offended.

The only thing that our U.S. Constitution guarantees is protection from government reprisal for the things that you say.

It doesn't grant anyone immunity from the social consequences that come from being an *******.

Yet somehow free speech absolutists have this idea that private citizens should not only quietly endure their verbal spewage, but also provide them with a free soapbox and an audience.

 

[Watchmen]

Bill Maher is a vitriolically anti-religious, highly dismissive neoliberal. Jordan Peterson now works for the Daily Wire—a blatantly biased, ideologically slanted outlet that sows demonization and tribalism—while railing against "ideology" even though he works for such an outlet and also promulgates overgeneralized misrepresentations of groups with whom he disagrees, such as Marxists and "trans activists," both of whom he talks about as if they were uniform groups consisting of people who held the exact same views.

I would actually be more surprised if an interview involving both of these men were not mostly unproductive. Thankfully, both of them are far from being the most popular public figures among younger people (or any other age group, really).

Guess you didn’t watch the interview and we’re just dismissive because you don’t like them.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Guess you didn’t watch the interview and we’re just dismissive because you don’t like them.

I've watched it at least twice before, and I've found their points lacking and misplaced in the context of discussing a university or other educational and professional settings, mainly for the reasons I outlined in post #7. I've also watched a lot of other content from both Maher and Peterson. That's why I have my current opinions of both of them.

I'm not sure why you would jump to the conclusion that I didn't watch the interview based on my opinions in the post you responded to. Disagreeing with someone's politics doesn't necessarily entail avoiding all of their content.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Hey Kenny. I'll limit my comments to that particular video, rather than larger comments about the actors. I liked it too! Thanks for sharing.

What do you think of the points I raised in post #7? Based on your previous posts, I don't think you'd agree that repeated or deliberate misgendering should be allowed in a professional setting or treated differently from any other conduct that deliberately disrespects others in such a setting, so I'm mainly interested to know your general thoughts on the subject and what you liked the most about the interview.

 

[Secret Chief]

Bill Maher is a vitriolically anti-religious, highly dismissive neoliberal. Jordan Peterson now works for the Daily Wire—a blatantly biased, ideologically slanted outlet that sows demonization and tribalism—while railing against "ideology" even though he works for such an outlet and also promulgates overgeneralized misrepresentations of groups with whom he disagrees, such as Marxists and "trans activists," both of whom he talks about as if they were uniform groups consisting of people who held the exact same views.

I would actually be more surprised if an interview involving both of these men were not mostly unproductive. Thankfully, both of them are far from being the most popular public figures among younger people (or any other age group, really).

Ooh I'm nearly tempted to watch it! Not.