Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...

[Secret Chief]

And what does this have to do with psychology?

Maybe just when he's not being a **** his day job is a psychologist.

 

[wellwisher]

Its worth thinking about when considering what the right to free speech is and what it is for. The framing of the question "Why does your right to free speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended?" could be modified to replace 'Trans' with many other groups of people.

Suppose we are talking about cancer patients: Why does our right to free speech trump a cancer patient's right not to be offended? It rumps because sometimes in order to think you have to be offensive. Definitely I agree with Bill Moyer's criticism of what the president of the U. of Fresno said. Disrespect is included in the right to free speech and is part of it.

Or we could be talking about a politician. The right to disrespect them in our speech is a protected right. That is true.

Free speech is connected to Democracy; we all have a vote and a right to an opinion. The majority, in a Democracy, gets to vote and rule and should be able to state any opinion. Why does does the Left say they are for Democracy, while pushing narratives that allow small minorities to decide for the majority? Trans are a tiny minority, so why are they put on the pedestal and free speech deprived, if you do not blindly accept this. if we live in a Democracy? This is about Lefty bait and switch.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Ooh I'm nearly tempted to watch it! Not.

I watched it (and many other videos featuring Maher and Peterson) because I like acquainting myself with other ideas, even if I may not end up agreeing with them. I also believe people of questionable credibility and motives can still sometimes present good or thought-provoking ideas. Dismissing someone's ideas out of hand based on the person's character or actions would be an ad hominem fallacy, after all.

I didn't find much in the way of good ideas in this interview, but I think it's generally best for people to form judgments on such things after watching (or reading) the content themselves.

 

[Estro Felino]

Do you know why in English there is not the idiom "to have the tail of straw"?

Because in the US, UK, there is political correctness, so you feel entitled to feel offended.

Here in my country there is no such a right.
Because if I am speaking about undetermined groups, and you feel offended, it means you have the tail of straw.

And having the tail of straw is a big humiliation.

 

[Audie]

Its worth thinking about when considering what the right to free speech is and what it is for. The framing of the question "Why does your right to free speech trump a trans person's right not to be offended?" could be modified to replace 'Trans' with many other groups of people.

Suppose we are talking about cancer patients: Why does our right to free speech trump a cancer patient's right not to be offended? It rumps because sometimes in order to think you have to be offensive. Definitely I agree with Bill Moyer's criticism of what the president of the U. of Fresno said. Disrespect is included in the right to free speech and is part of it.

Or we could be talking about a politician. The right to disrespect them in our speech is a protected right. That is true.

Few politicians deserve respect.

No matter how lofty they think they are

 

[Audie]

Free speech absolutists have a right to offend -- and the targets of their invective equally have a right to be offended.

The only thing that our U.S. Constitution guarantees is protection from government reprisal for the things that you say.

It doesn't grant anyone immunity from the social consequences that come from being an *******.

Yet somehow free speech absolutists have this idea that private citizens should not only quietly endure their verbal spewage, but also provide them with a free soapbox and an audience.

Karens?

 

[Kenny]

Many people using free speech to disrespect others are just exposing their own ignorance. Knowing this, one need not take such people serious.

e.g.:
If you tell someone "you are stupid". It can easily be proven that this is not true

Won't deny that, for sure. It is the sharp edge of freedom. But let's keep freedom as a priority.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Won't deny that, for sure. It is the sharp edge of freedom. But let's keep freedom as a priority.

What would you do if one of the congregants at your church deliberately and repeatedly referred to the men in the congregation as "she," the adults as "kids," or the attendants as "false Christians"? I think we most likely agree that his actions would almost surely cause great offense and perhaps major altercations inside the church. Would you tell him to choose between respecting other congregants and leaving, or would you allow him to keep at it? Would you be in violation of his free speech rights if you asked him to stop referring to fellow congregants as "false Christians" if he wanted to keep attending your church?

 

[Secret Chief]

I watched it (and many other videos featuring Maher and Peterson) because I like acquainting myself with other ideas, even if I may not end up agreeing with them. I also believe people of questionable credibility and motives can still sometimes present good or thought-provoking ideas. Dismissing someone's ideas out of hand based on the person's character or actions would be an ad hominem fallacy, after all.

I didn't find much in the way of good ideas in this interview, but I think it's generally best for people to form judgments on such things after watching (or reading) the content themselves.

I've watched him on British TV in the past and am aware of his views.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Free speech is connected to Democracy; we all have a vote and a right to an opinion. The majority, in a Democracy, gets to vote and rule and should be able to state any opinion. Why does does the Left say they are for Democracy, while pushing narratives that allow small minorities to decide for the majority? Trans are a tiny minority, so why are they put on the pedestal and free speech deprived, if you do not blindly accept this. if we live in a Democracy? This is about Lefty bait and switch.

I actually find that trans people are too mistreated by conservative voters, but I uphold that the right to free speech is important to preserve both trans freedoms and mine. I don't think they will be permanently on a pedestal, because the law is often hard to discern. We must swing left and right to find the surest path. At times we must be gracious when it seems the laws are in extremis.

Conservatives are too quick to panic. They have many miserable fears such as fearing transexual identity could be contagious or punishment from God. Trans peeps do need and deserve more consideration.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Few politicians deserve respect.

No matter how lofty they think they are

There are benefits to being assertive. Its not all bad. An assertive person is free to truly like other people without the self judgment and jealousy so common among people. There is a problem though with self worshipping politicians. They seem to lose track of their boundaries.

 

[Father Heathen]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

You like Bill Maher? Here's some more:

 

[YmirGF]

I particularly loved some of Maher's comments.

I actually find that trans people are too mistreated by conservative voters, but I uphold that the right to free speech is important to preserve both trans freedoms and mine. I don't think they will be permanently on a pedestal, because the law is often hard to discern. We must swing left and right to find the surest path. At times we must be gracious when it seems the laws are in extremis.

Conservatives are too quick to panic. They have many miserable fears such as fearing transexual identity could be contagious or punishment from God. Trans peeps do need and deserve more consideration.

I'm at the stage where I blame this on marketing. This whole concept has not been "sold" to the public very well, at all.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Free speech is connected to Democracy; we all have a vote and a right to an opinion. The majority, in a Democracy, gets to vote and rule and should be able to state any opinion. Why does does the Left say they are for Democracy, while pushing narratives that allow small minorities to decide for the majority? Trans are a tiny minority, so why are they put on the pedestal and free speech deprived, if you do not blindly accept this. if we live in a Democracy? This is about Lefty bait and switch.

Nobody's free speech as defined by our U.S. Constitution's First Amendment is being deprived of anyone. The government cannot prosecute you merely for saying offensive things. Unless, of course, your offensiveness falls under a legal category from which our First Amendment does not shield you, such as inciting violence, slander, libel, child pornography, and false advertising, for a few examples.

Additionally, the government will not (and should not) give you supremacy over the rights of others.

So, if your litmus test for free speech is to denigrate and verbally abuse others, well then, pull up your big boy pants and accept the social and business consequences that come with how you use your words.

Your private sector employer has the legal right to terminate your employment if you exercise poor judgment, embarrassing yourself as well as (by proxy) the company you work for. Not fair? You can console yourself by buying a cupcake from one of those bakers that the Supreme Court has ruled has the right not to sell their wares to the same people you don't like.

If somebody unfriended you on their Facebook, or you got yourself completely banned from some social media platform because of your outspoken bigotry, cry me a river. Go create your own social media platform, like Trump did with Truth Social. It's a free country -- but you're obliged to use your own resources if you want your own soapbox.

 

[YmirGF]

Do you know why in English there is not the idiom "to have the tail of straw"?

Because in the US, UK, there is political correctness, so you feel entitled to feel offended.

Here in my country there is no such a right.
Because if I am speaking about undetermined groups, and you feel offended, it means you have the tail of straw.

And having the tail of straw is a big humiliation.

Not doubting you @Estro Felino but as a native English speaker, though I understand what you are saying, to my ear, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. A tail of straw, literally has no meaning in English, as far I am aware (or have even heard of). Interesting idea though.

 

[anna.]

I particularly loved some of Maher's comments.

You mean when he was talking about child-parent relationships as a homogenous block when he's not even a parent?

 

[YmirGF]

You mean when he was talking about child-parent relationships as a homogenous block when he's not even a parent?

You need to improve your mind-reading skills. They're a bit off.

 

[metis]

I thought this was great! - Language is raw if you have sensitive ears.

Years ago, I used to watch his show regularly, but I no longer have HBO.

IMO, when raising children, either extreme should be avoided.

 

[Audie]

There are benefits to being assertive. Its not all bad. An assertive person is free to truly like other people without the self judgment and jealousy so common among people. There is a problem though with self worshipping politicians. They seem to lose track of their boundaries.

Entitled is the word

 

[anna.]

You need to improve your mind-reading skills. They're a bit off.

Oh, no worries. I'm not reading your mind.