Jordan Peterson and Bill Maher...

[Shadow Wolf]

Enough there to give it a pause. Sweden isn't the only country that is pulling back.

They aren't pulling back and people are still transitioning.

 

[Kenny]

They aren't pulling back and people are still transitioning.

That isn't what the directive says. There are other countries too.

It's because more recent studies is giving updates and science corrects itself

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...e-rethinking-gender-affirming-care-for-minors

The U.K. is not the only European country that is rethinking how to approach gender-affirming care for minors. Several countries, including traditionally more progressive nations like Swedenand Norway, are changing guidelines at least in part due to questions from some doctors about the risks of such procedures. The changes in Europe are occurring more often at the health care policy level initiated by medical professionals, rather than through new or adjusted laws pushed by legislators, and experts say they haven’t been politicized to the extent they have been in the U.S.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

That isn't what the directive says. There are other countries too.

It's because more recent studies is giving updates and science corrects itself

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-co...e-rethinking-gender-affirming-care-for-minors

The U.K. is not the only European country that is rethinking how to approach gender-affirming care for minors. Several countries, including traditionally more progressive nations like Swedenand Norway, are changing guidelines at least in part due to questions from some doctors about the risks of such procedures. The changes in Europe are occurring more often at the health care policy level initiated by medical professionals, rather than through new or adjusted laws pushed by legislators, and experts say they haven’t been politicized to the extent they have been in the U.S.

Nowhere does that say they aren't doing it. All it says, no less than probably a dozen times, is the experts have questions about possible risks.
And America has underwent decades of revisions. Whether you want to believe amd accept this as fact or not, it used to be tje actual regret amd failed transition rate was so high that John Hopkins closed down its program for trans people. Amd then the Standards of Care were developed and now the rate of regret amd failed transitions is very, very low amd decades later the SOC is on its 7th or 8th edition if I recall correctly.

 

[metis]

I think that after listening to detransitioners, people should take a pause, listen and review.

https://segm.org/sites/default/files/Karolinska%20_Policy_Statement_English.pdf

Executive Decisions

• § In light of the above, and based on the precautionary principle, which should always be applied, it has been decided that hormonal treatments (i.e., puberty blocking and cross-sex hormones) will not be initiated in gender dysphoric patients under the age of 16.
• § For patients between ages 16 and 18, it has been decided that treatment may only occur within the clinical trial settings approved by the EPM (Ethical Review Agency/Swedish Institutional Review Board). The patient must receive comprehensive information about potential risks of the treatment, and a careful assessment of the patient’s maturity level must be conducted to determine if the patient is capable of evaluating, and consenting to, the treatment.

I have posted twice before from medical sources, including the Mayo Clinic, that it is generally safe. However, all drugs have side effects, including the meds I'm on. Thus, sometimes a compromise may be needed authorized by medical staff, and generally speaking, I'm quite sure they would notify the teen and parents what those side effects could be. Even after getting the suppressants, the pharmacies have a detailed paper with the script that goes through what they may be.

So, maybe let the teen, the parents, the medical staff, and the pharmacies do their work as I do believe they know a lot more about this, along with the specifics, than you or I.

 

[Kenny]

I have posted twice before from medical sources, including the Mayo Clinic, that it is generally safe. However, all drugs have side effects, including the meds I'm on. Thus, sometimes a compromise may be needed authorized by medical staff, and generally speaking, I'm quite sure they would notify the teen and parents what those side effects could be. Even after getting the suppressants, the pharmacies have a detailed paper with the script that goes through what they may be.

So, maybe let the teen, the parents, the medical staff, and the pharmacies do their work as I do believe they know a lot more about this, along with the specifics, than you or I.

And yet, other entities like unto Mayo (as noted), say hold back, research more, not be as aggressive.

I am not saying that treatments are all bad (such as using it for your body and for other things) - but the issue isn't medical benefits of drugs but rather the misapplication of said drugs in the area of gender dysphoria.

Medical professions along with drug companies should do their jobs but the abundance of law suits show that they don't always do so.

EDIT: - My son attended a large medical profession conference and said "Wow... this whole conference isn't about making people better, it's about making more money". Unfortunate but true. And there is big bucks in this new area that hasn't been developed. Ground floor is where you make the most money.

 

[metis]

I am not saying that treatments are all bad (such as using it for your body and for other things) - but the issue isn't medical benefits of drugs but rather the misapplication of said drugs in the area of gender dysphoria.

Whether it's a "misapplication" or not is a factor but not the only factor. I'm on a pretty nasty drug right now [methotrexate] that has some very nasty side-effects, but it beats the alternative of not taking it in my case. But notice "in my case", because this can also be applied to probably most drugs, including hormone suppressants.

There's an old Amerindian expression that goes that we should never judge another unless we've walked a moon [month] in his moccasins. The same can by applied with some who may need immunity suppressants, including our oldest daughter who's taking the because of her breast cancer.

IOW, let's leave such decisions to the medical field and the patients and their family and the FDA and CDC, not the government(s). No one told you that you had to take the covid vaccine, right, even though they have a proven health benefit for most? I took them, not only because of myself but also to protect others, which I believe is my Christian obligation.

Medical professions along with drug companies should do their jobs but the abundance of law suits show that they don't always do so.

That can be said about literally every profession.

EDIT: - My son attended a large medical profession conference and said "Wow... this whole conference isn't about making people better, it's about making more money". Unfortunate but true. And there is big bucks in this new area that hasn't been developed. Ground floor is where you make the most money.

Some may say that this is true also in the arena of religion.

 

[Kenny]

Whether it's a "misapplication" or not is a factor but not the only factor. I'm on a pretty nasty drug right now [methotrexate] that has some very nasty side-effects, but it beats the alternative of not taking it in my case. But notice "in my case", because this can also be applied to probably most drugs, including hormone suppressants.

There's an old Amerindian expression that goes that we should never judge another unless we've walked a moon [month] in his moccasins. The same can by applied with some who may need immunity suppressants, including our oldest daughter who's taking the because of her breast cancer.

IOW, let's leave such decisions to the medical field and the patients and their family and the FDA and CDC, not the government(s). No one told you that you had to take the covid vaccine, right, even though they have a proven health benefit for most? I took them, not only because of myself but also to protect others, which I believe is my Christian obligation.

I'm not judging. I'm expressing my viewpoint.

Do you support no transfusions that the JW believe in?
FDA and CDC are part of the government.
And, likewise, I think it is my Christian obligation to protect others, namely stopping long term gender changes that were almost negligible 3 decades ago for children under 18.

That can be said about literally every profession.

Some may say that this is true also in the arena of religion.

That is TRUE and TRUE...

Thus, we should keep a wary eye on all professions including those advocating surgical removal of breasts on children who don't know the first thing about what they are doing and pressured to do so.

 

[metis]

Do you support no transfusions that the JW believe in?

Yes, but not necessarily when it comes to their children as parents have a responsibility to try and protect them. Thus, if they don't, then it may be time for the courts to step in. IOW, this is not some sort of zero-sum game.

FDA and CDC are part of the government.

Yes, and I'm not opposed to specific government supervision and possible restrictions as I'm not an anarchist. Again, this is not a zero-sum thingy with me.

BTW, I test as a "left-libertarian", so that should tell you something.

And, likewise, I think it is my Christian obligation to protect others, namely stopping long term gender changes that were almost negligible 3 decades ago for children under 18.

Time goes on, and why should you support such unnecessary government intrusion and take those rights away from families and their medical professionals? I got the vaccine to protect myself and others-- you didn't. You voted twice for a malicious insurrectionist that speaks and acts contrary to Judeo-Christian values-- I didn't. And just a reminder that some died because of Trump supported by those who seem to elevate hate and self-centeredness over love and compassion for all.

However, this isn't really about you & I.

That is TRUE and TRUE...

Thus, we should keep a wary eye on all professions including those advocating surgical removal of breasts on children who don't know the first thing about what they are doing and pressured to do so.

Children do not make such decisions by themselves.

Maybe pray and meditate on the Lord's Day, and take care.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not judging. I'm expressing my viewpoint.

Do you support no transfusions that the JW believe in?
FDA and CDC are part of the government.
And, likewise, I think it is my Christian obligation to protect others, namely stopping long term gender changes that were almost negligible 3 decades ago for children under 18.




That is TRUE and TRUE...

Thus, we should keep a wary eye on all professions including those advocating surgical removal of breasts on children who don't know the first thing about what they are doing and pressured to do so.

Source needed for these multiple claims.

Plus, the built-in claim that you apparently know more than medical professionals about "what they are doing" and what should be done.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'll have to ask our oldest daughter about that, but either way I can understand that as educators we should not get directly involved in such personal matters with the student's family issues without parental consent. Trust me, I did a lot of that in my latter years of teachings because so many parents were desperate and didn't know what to do. I couldn't tell them what to do but I could, and sometimes did, throw out various options.

Counselors may get more involved if there's an issue, but they have sort things out first because they don't want to make a mistake that could blow things up.

Heh...could have used your voice in that other thread, that being the case...