Joseph Smith - Prophet of God

[Melissa G]

Hi , thanks. My point was, how does anybody know, someone actually talked to God, I can't see the difference myself, between self-proclaimed or not. I mean, if God told a group of witnesses that God spoke to so and so, then that would corroberation of claims.

Melissa G

 

[SoyLeche]

Hi , thanks. My point was, how does anybody know, someone actually talked to God, I can't see the difference myself, between self-proclaimed or not. I mean, if God told a group of witnesses that God spoke to so and so, then that would corroberation of claims.

Melissa G

You need to seek out your own revelation in order to know. That can't be shared between individuals.

 

[SoyLeche]

I mean, if God told a group of witnesses that God spoke to so and so, then that would corroberation of claims.

Melissa G

So, if a group of 3 or 8 men corroberated that what a certain Prophet said happened actually happened, then it would be acceptable?

 

[KingM]

You need to seek out your own revelation in order to know. That can't be shared between individuals.

Doesn't that contradict your 3 & 8 witnesses statement? Also, doesn't this obviate the need for prophets? Patriarchal blessings? The scriptures?

And if it was just a matter of individual revelation, what about the people who pray and claim that God told them the Book of Mormon was false?

 

[SoyLeche]

Doesn't that contradict your 3 & 8 witnesses statement? Also, doesn't this obviate the need for prophets? Patriarchal blessings? The scriptures?

And if it was just a matter of individual revelation, what about the people who pray and claim that God told them the Book of Mormon was false?

Nope. No. Not at all. Not that either.

Couldn't tell you. I only know what I've been told.

 

[Melissa G]

So, if a group of 3 or 8 men corroberated that what a certain Prophet said happened actually happened, then it would be acceptable?

Not exactly what I was thinking of. What would be acceptable is if some Angel or whatever, appreared to a large crowd of unrelated people in public and spoke. Of course, one would have to ascertain if some theatrical trick wasn't being performed. My point is really this, all prophets are self-proclaimed, I find no distinction between any of them.

Melissa G

 

[lilithu]

I really don't want to get into another circular discussion. I'd like to know, if anybody indeed does know, what the difference is between a prophet and a self-proclaimed prophet. To my way of thinking all prophet's are self-proclaimed. Since any claim is a subjective claim.

Thanks
Melissa

There's no such thing as a self-proclaimed prophet. Some people may proclaim themselves as such, but unless others recognize them as prophets, they aren't.

 

[Bishka]

Not exactly what I was thinking of. What would be acceptable is if some Angel or whatever, appreared to a large crowd of unrelated people in public and spoke. Of course, one would have to ascertain if some theatrical trick wasn't being performed. My point is really this, all prophets are self-proclaimed, I find no distinction between any of them.

Melissa G

Even if an angel appeared to you, you wouldn't join any Church unless you actually believed it was true.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Becky, Becky, Becky ... that is not what your Lord and Saviour taught.

Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

But let’s not forget that you are a free agent. Besides, what Jesus wants is impossible, I really don't expect you or any other Mormons/Christians to live up to his expectations. It’s all easy to spout off about "love" being the greatest commandment. But come on, loving your family and friends is easy, even the evil-doers pull that one off. But holy hell, loving a harlot like me, now that takes some courage. It is an inside job which becomes manifest on the outside and demonstrated by how we forgive one another.

The truth hurts, and man, that one kinda hurt...

 

[KingM]

Even if an angel appeared to you, you wouldn't join any Church unless you actually believed it was true.

And even then...

If I told you that I saw an angel last night, you'd think I were lying or delusional. If the angel had told me to join your church (versus, say, to wander naked in the wilderness for the next ten years) you might listen, but you'd still have serious doubts.

 

[sojourner]

A Prophet has actually "talked" with God. A self-proclaimed prophet may or may not have.

Wait a minute! I thought a prophet was one called out of the people by God to speak on God's behalf.

 

[sojourner]

But come on, loving your family and friends is easy, even the evil-doers pull that one off.

Don't be so sure. The majority of murders takes place among family members. Families hurt each other worse than strangers are capable of. Loving one's family is not easy. It's difficult.

 

[SoyLeche]

Wait a minute! I thought a prophet was one called out of the people by God to speak on God's behalf.

Yup. No dichotomy there.

 

[Bishka]

And even then...

If I told you that I saw an angel last night, you'd think I were lying or delusional.

Not necessarily, I'm more universalist then you think.

 

[KingM]

Not necessarily, I'm more universalist then you think.

Okay, then. If I told you I saw an angel last night, I'd think I was either lying or delusional.

 

[Bishka]

Okay, then. If I told you I saw an angel last night, I'd think I was either lying or delusional.

There you go then.

 

[Autodidact]

There's a difficult challenge that honest people face who don't accept Joseph Smith as a true prophet. They have to answer these questions:

- Where did the Book of Mormon come from?

Joseph Smith made itup.

- Did Joseph Smith produce such a theologically and logistically complex work all on his own at such a young age and with such little formal education?

:yes: I fail to find it as fascinating as you.

- In light of Christ's instruction: "by their fruits ye shall know them", how do you reconcile your belief that Joseph is not a true prophet -- his efforts produced many good fruits?

Well, to begin with, I'm not a Christian, and don't really care what Jesus is purported to have said. Even if you accept it, I don't find the Mormon history of bigotry, intercine murder, patriarchal sexism, anti-gay discrimination, forgery, polygamy, etc. etc. to be such a delicious fruit.

- How would you identify a true prophet?

Accurate predictions, verified by independent confirmation.

- Where then are the true prophets that Amos and Paul promised would participate in the ministry of the true gospel of Christ?

Who cares?

 

[Bishka]

Who cares?

If you don't care, then why the heck are you participating? :areyoucra

 

[Autodidact]

If you really think you have an argument for that, why don't you take DeepShadow's longstanding challenge for a one-on-one debate on the authenticity of the Book of Mormon?

He sure got lucky with his imagination.

Well, only if by "got lucky" you mean, "made a lot of statements completely contradicted by the archeological evidence."

 

[Bishka]

Well, only if by "got lucky" you mean, "made a lot of statements completely contradicted by the archaeological evidence."

I'd think one over actually. More and more archeology is coming out with findings that don't prove the Book of Mormon false. You should really discuss this with Deepshadow or take a look at some of the evidence. I'm not asking you to believe in, just take a look.