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Joseph Smith - Prophet of God
- Thread starter Polaris
- Start date
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Thank you. I shall. Sheep stray, but they're still sheep. The fact is that the weight of Tradition (the sheep-fold, so to speak -- from which Smith thought the sheep had strayed, and to which he hoped to "return" them) rests with groups like Roman Catholicism, Anglicanism, Orthodoxy (and other Triune groups). Therefore, the onus is upon Smith and his followers to prove that the "tradition" to which Smith hoped to return the Church is the real sheep-fold. It can't be done, and the evidence that this is so is very dicey.True, but neither does a belief negate a fact. At the most we can say, like I've already said, that it is unprovable. Either way, it is still possible that the churches did, in fact, stray, just like Smith said they did. I believe that they did, so I accept it as a fact. Feel free to disagree (not that you need my permission).
SoyLeche
meh...
Actually, the onus is not on Smith to prove it. It is upon the Spirit to prove it in the hearts of individuals. The rest is just academics.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Obviously, the Spirit has not proved it in the hearts of many individuals. Many more so than the Spirit has proved it within. However, the Spirit has proved other things to other individuals who are as Spirit-filled and God-led as anyone -- things that are just as academically unprovable, yet carry the weight of God's Truth. Academics? No. Faith? Yes. Truth is broader than Smith gave it credit for. Narrow-mindedness is not an attribute of the prophet. A glimpse of God's vision, however, is the mark of a prophet.
SoyLeche
meh...
I'm not in a position to tell anyone else what the Spirit has or has not told them. As far as I know, Smith didn't either. He was actually a pretty open-minded fellow - and I think he had about as broad a view of truth as anyone else.
Mormons don't have to believe anything that isn't true. They do, however, have to believe things that are true. Figuring out the difference is the sticky part, and something that we all deal with.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
It's so funny to see people so stubborn and hard nosed go off every chance they get to attack our Church.
Even the Catholic Church's claims of apostolic succession are easily refuted. Ignatius of Antioch had no proof of being an actual successor to Peter, only his claims and his followers's claims. (not an attack ya'll can believe what you want, just using it as an example)
you can do the same for each and every religion. but yet, man they make the Joseph smith and LDS topics so poular nowadays, i wonder if they have a personal vendetta against us for being so nice and helping the world and being the World's largest religious contributor to humanitarian aid worldwide.
Even the Catholic Church's claims of apostolic succession are easily refuted. Ignatius of Antioch had no proof of being an actual successor to Peter, only his claims and his followers's claims. (not an attack ya'll can believe what you want, just using it as an example)
you can do the same for each and every religion. but yet, man they make the Joseph smith and LDS topics so poular nowadays, i wonder if they have a personal vendetta against us for being so nice and helping the world and being the World's largest religious contributor to humanitarian aid worldwide.
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
Bishka
Veteran Member
Let's see...you are claiming that you aren't attacking them, but you are doing the same exact thing they are doing to us. :sarcastic
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I agree. That's why I'm an atheist.
I'd love for you back up your claim that the Mormons are the world's largest religious contributor to humanitarian aid worldwide.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
go look it up and refute me then, and nice avatar, the 2nd wife off Big Love on HBO hehe
Bishka
Veteran Member
Melissa G
Non Veritas Verba Amanda
To me, as Einstein said, the inexplicable thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible. By that he meant through physics. Anyways, we are wandering off into cosmological questions and off topic on Mr Smith.
Regards
Melissa
Melissa G
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Here's the question presented (by a Mormon) to the world in the OP:
It's not an attack. It's an answer to a question. This is America. I can do that without fear of punishment or reprisal.
Here's a suggestion for some of y'all:
Being less exclusive with regard to authority and truth would require less use of the "persecution/foul" button on your part.
Go back and read my comment more carefully, I wasn't refuting your claim; I was observing that I would love it if you could back it up. I already know the value of your claim, I don't need to refute it.
No such thing as bad advertising huh .... I'm not so sure.
SoyLeche
meh...
You seem to be under the impression that our being "exclusive with regard to authority and truth" is a matter of choice. Given that it isn't, I don't see how this is relevant at all.
Spoken like a true believer.
SoyLeche
meh...
You bethca
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
There's always a choice. To say that there isn't is to blur the edges of truth.
SoyLeche
meh...
Maybe you can choose what is true and what isn't. The best I can do is try and figure it out.
I also can't choose what 2+2 equals. Sometimes it would be nice to be able to, but it just isn't a choice.