Joseph Smith - Prophet of God

[Don Penguinoini]

This is a really long thread. I know the truth of Joseph Smith, its all in South Park

 

[Melissa G]

The only actions worth taking are those actions which embrace truths. So they can happily walk the walk of falsehood. As far as Christianity goes, besides the NT, one must also take in to account, the Quram community and the gospels, Q and Thomas. If Jesus lived, he was a man and not A god by defination of the council of Nicea voting him one.

~M

 

[Bishka]

The only actions worth taking are those actions which embrace truths. So they can happily walk the walk of falsehood. As far as Christianity goes, besides the NT, one must also take in to account, the Quram community and the gospels, Q and Thomas. If Jesus lived, he was a man and not A god by defination of the council of Nicea voting him one.

~M

Oh, and here I thought this thread was about Joseph Smith?

 

[madhatter85]

The only actions worth taking are those actions which embrace truths. So they can happily walk the walk of falsehood. As far as Christianity goes, besides the NT, one must also take in to account, the Quram community and the gospels, Q and Thomas. If Jesus lived, he was a man and not A god by defination of the council of Nicea voting him one.

~M

We do not use the Nicene Creed, nor do we accept it as cannon. we view it as a man made document as to the nature of Deity, and we know it to be utterly false. I'm sorry that you think we walk in falsehood, but we know everything else to be false, and that those who do not accept the true gospel of Jesus Christ here will be taught it in the afterlife before the resurrection. Why would God not teach everyone the truth or at least give everyone a fair chance at eternal glory? the problem is with mortality they reject it because it's easier for people to walk in iniquity rather than prepare themselves and walk in righteousness.

 

[Smoke]

We do not use the Nicene Creed, nor do we accept it as cannon. we view it as a man made document as to the nature of Deity, and we know it to be utterly false.

It's surprising that you know that. All of the Mormons I know believe the Nicene Creed is true in some -- though not all -- respects.

 

[Katzpur]

It's surprising that you know that. All of the Mormons I know believe the Nicene Creed is true in some -- though not all -- respects.

Well, we do believe in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost, but beyond that, we see the Nicene Creed as being expansions and extrapolations of doctrines that were taught in the first century Church.

 

[Katzpur]

If I was, and I was, a Christian, in the Church of England. Then my take is that Smith, is a false prohpet as spoke about in Mt7:15;1, Jn 4:1, and Mt 24:11 and Mk 13:22. Even worse for Smith, is the Muslims believe Mohammad was God's last prophet.

Oh, man, it doesn't get much better than this! :biglaugh:Here we have a Pagan with a decidedly anti-Christian mindset, basing her belief that Joseph Smith is a false prophet on New Testament scriptures which she also rejects, and denouncing him for claiming to be a prophet when, according to Islamic doctrine, which she also rejects, Mohammad was supposedly the last prophet! Melissa, you made my day. I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time.

 

[Scott C.]

I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, the real thing. It's a mistake to simply blow off the possibility of this truth simply because something may strike you as fantastic, such as ancient hidden records, angelic visitations, etc. To say Joseph was obviously a fraud, shows a lack of study and thoughtfulness on the subject, in my opinion. There are those who don't accept Joseph's divine calling, yet know a lot about his history and do look at it honestly and objectively. Many of them come to the conclusion that Joseph is hard to explain. They see ample evidence of his sincerity and good heart. There are so many historical points that demonstrate this and much more favorable and compelling evidence. I've heard intelligent people conclude that while they don't accept Joseph's calling, they don't have a good explanation for him, and they can't quickly dismiss him as a fake and a charlatan, and dismiss the Lattter-day Saints as naive dupes. Such people recognize that when you have all of the historical facts, that's not a fair or well thought out conclusion. Look into this carefully from LDS sources (you can keep your non-LDS sources too), and you may be surprised what you learn and what you feel.

 

[Autodidact]

I believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, the real thing. It's a mistake to simply blow off the possibility of this truth simply because something may strike you as fantastic, such as ancient hidden records, angelic visitations, etc. To say Joseph was obviously a fraud, shows a lack of study and thoughtfulness on the subject, in my opinion. There are those who don't accept Joseph's divine calling, yet know a lot about his history and do look at it honestly and objectively. Many of them come to the conclusion that Joseph is hard to explain. They see ample evidence of his sincerity and good heart. There are so many historical points that demonstrate this and much more favorable and compelling evidence. I've heard intelligent people conclude that while they don't accept Joseph's calling, they don't have a good explanation for him, and they can't quickly dismiss him as a fake and a charlatan, and dismiss the Lattter-day Saints as naive dupes. Such people recognize that when you have all of the historical facts, that's not a fair or well thought out conclusion. Look into this carefully from LDS sources (you can keep your non-LDS sources too), and you may be surprised what you learn and what you feel.

It's not that it strikes me as fantastic; weirder things than that have happened. It's that the evidence doesn't indicate that it did. To believe that Joseph Smith was accurate shows a lack of familiarity with, and acceptance of, the facts. If you think you have some evidence to support anything the book of Mormon says about America, please present it.

 

[madhatter85]

It's not that it strikes me as fantastic; weirder things than that have happened. It's that the evidence doesn't indicate that it did. To believe that Joseph Smith was accurate shows a lack of familiarity with, and acceptance of, the facts. If you think you have some evidence to support anything the book of Mormon says about America, please present it.

Facts are relative, facts are all biased and based on your perception and willingness to accept certain facts.

my facts on why i know Joseph Smith was a prophet of god -

When i pray about it, I recieve the greatest feeling of comfort and peace you can imagine.

The Book of Mormon is true because of the same fact for me.

you are unwilling to accept my facts of the matter because you are unfamiliar with the role the holy spirit plays in your life (yes even you). the fact is my feelings on the subject, i cannot deny the feelings i have and also the fact that hen i listen to the promptings of the spirit, things work out for the better in my life. and i know that my prayers are answered. that is my facts. that is why i know that it is true.

call it what you want, reject the words of prophets, reject the scriptures, that is up to you to decide, the church and the truth will press on with or without you. would we love to have you along? yes, but how can you be forced to when you have free-agency? you can't be forced.

It is based on faith, praying and humbling yourself with the faith that you actually will recieve an answer. that is all it takes, a willingnes to want to know the truth without a bias. then, and only then, will you recieve the "facts" that you claim don't exist for us.

 

[Autodidact]

Facts are relative, facts are all biased and based on your perception and willingness to accept certain facts.

my facts on why i know Joseph Smith was a prophet of god -

When i pray about it, I recieve the greatest feeling of comfort and peace you can imagine.

The Book of Mormon is true because of the same fact for me.

you are unwilling to accept my facts of the matter because you are unfamiliar with the role the holy spirit plays in your life (yes even you). the fact is my feelings on the subject, i cannot deny the feelings i have and also the fact that hen i listen to the promptings of the spirit, things work out for the better in my life. and i know that my prayers are answered. that is my facts. that is why i know that it is true.

call it what you want, reject the words of prophets, reject the scriptures, that is up to you to decide, the church and the truth will press on with or without you. would we love to have you along? yes, but how can you be forced to when you have free-agency? you can't be forced.

It is based on faith, praying and humbling yourself with the faith that you actually will recieve an answer. that is all it takes, a willingnes to want to know the truth without a bias. then, and only then, will you recieve the "facts" that you claim don't exist for us.

By facts I meant something outside your own head, like archeologicial artifacts, things like that, not your feelings. Otherwise you would have to accept my feelings as facts, and we wouldn't get anywhere. Those kinds of facts are not relative; they either exist or they don't. And as for facts like that that support the BoM, they don't.
When you say, "reject the words of prophets," you're assuming what you're trying to find out. That doesn't work.
It's not an issue of forcing me. No one has to force me to believe things. All they need to do is provide me with evidence, persuasive evidence. That's how rational people work.

 

[nutshell]

By facts I meant something outside your own head, like archeologicial artifacts, things like that, not your feelings. Otherwise you would have to accept my feelings as facts, and we wouldn't get anywhere. Those kinds of facts are not relative; they either exist or they don't. And as for facts like that that support the BoM, they don't.
When you say, "reject the words of prophets," you're assuming what you're trying to find out. That doesn't work.
It's not an issue of forcing me. No one has to force me to believe things. All they need to do is provide me with evidence, persuasive evidence. That's how rational people work.

Auto:

I think these are the facts you're looking for (however, they are not the "facts" that convince one whether the BoM is true or not):

Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility

 

[madhatter85]

By facts I meant something outside your own head, like archeologicial artifacts, things like that, not your feelings. Otherwise you would have to accept my feelings as facts, and we wouldn't get anywhere. Those kinds of facts are not relative; they either exist or they don't. And as for facts like that that support the BoM, they don't.
When you say, "reject the words of prophets," you're assuming what you're trying to find out. That doesn't work.
It's not an issue of forcing me. No one has to force me to believe things. All they need to do is provide me with evidence, persuasive evidence. That's how rational people work.

don't kid yourself. no matter if you had overwhelming evidence or even if you were able to hold the golden plates in your hands and flip through the pages you wouldn't believe it any more than you do now.

and exactly what feelings regarding the book of mormon and joseph smith do you have? not logic rationalization, i mean true hard feelings, emotion? most likely you don't have any because you haven't asked for confirmation of it. if you had emotions regarding it you would be like melissa who is obviously anti-mormon.

there are 3 types of people in this world in regards to the LDS church. those who are members, those who don't know much about it, and those who are anti-mormon.

you can say "i don't care one way or another" but in reality, you either believe it or you don't. and if you don't believe it, or don't want to even hear it, you are anti-mormon, even if you don't openly slander us, still anti-mormon. other than that you haven't learned what exactly we believe, which would put you under the "don't know much about it."

 

[Bathsheba]

don't kid yourself. no matter if you had overwhelming evidence or even if you were able to hold the golden plates in your hands and flip through the pages you wouldn't believe it any more than you do now.

and exactly what feelings regarding the book of mormon and joseph smith do you have? not logic rationalization, i mean true hard feelings, emotion? most likely you don't have any because you haven't asked for confirmation of it. if you had emotions regarding it you would be like melissa who is obviously anti-mormon.

there are 3 types of people in this world in regards to the LDS church. those who are members, those who don't know much about it, and those who are anti-mormon.

you can say "i don't care one way or another" but in reality, you either believe it or you don't. and if you don't believe it, or don't want to even hear it, you are anti-mormon, even if you don't openly slander us, still anti-mormon. other than that you haven't learned what exactly we believe, which would put you under the "don't know much about it."

WOW! that is really something ...

I gotta say it again, WOW

 

[sojourner]

How can Soy be true to his neighbor is he's not first true to himself?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I think you may have misunderstood his post.

Because, in the Christian world, "I, me" doesn't come first. Others come first. I didn't get any sense of that stance in his post.

 

[sojourner]

There you are again claiming that I don't believe that "God loves everyone". That gets a bit tiresome, you know. And I never said I didn't honor other's views - in fact, it seems to me that I honor other's views a bit more than you do, because I honor yours but you obviously don't honor mine. I'm concerned by the fact that you don't seem to recognize that you are doing at least as little loving of your neighbor as anyone else I've seen.

I didn't claim that you don't believe that God loves everyone. What I claimed was that your sense of your own well-being takes precedence over that of others, and that you appear to be willing to walk over others in pursuit of "the facts" (even though they cannot be proven).

I honor your view that your faith is correct for you. You are free to believe whatever you wish for yourself. But when you begin to make judgmental statements about others and the veracity of their beliefs, or their spiritual status -- especially statements that serve to exclude -- that's what I don't honor. I don't honor that stance, because that's not a stance that you have any business taking.

 

[sojourner]

Wow, who's the self-righteous one here? You know, Sojourner, for someone who is so big on how important it is for us to love others, you might try showing a little of that love for your LDS brothers and sisters. We're not anywhere near as critical of your faith as you are of ours.

I'm not critical of your faith. I'm critical of the way that faith is acted out before the rest of us, because it assumes a certain superiority on your part, that I think does not play out well on God's playground.

A question was asked by a Mormon. I answered the question, and tried to explain why I answered the way I did. I don't believe that Smith was a prophet, and you all now know why. If you want to believe that he was, that's your business. I don't make any bones about the fact that I refrain from judging you based upon what you believe. I'm glad you have something that works for you. it doesn't work for me, or for others. It doesn't have to.

These questions get asked in a debate forum, and then someone calls foul, because they don't like the answers they receive from people who believe differently than they do. It's ridiculous.

Then the wagons get circled. Because we don't believe, we're not part of the "real" Church??? We don't have any authority in God's kingdom? You want to play in the Christian sandbox? I say, "come on in! Bring a bucket!" But then, you attempt to hijack the sandbox. This is nothing more than spiritual bullying, and I don't have to like it, or honor it. And my POV has nothing to do with Mormonism. I'll be more than happy to take this same stance against anyone who claims spiritual exclusivity, regardless of what they choose to call themselves.

It is possible to love someone and not accept ill behavior.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Oh, man, it doesn't get much better than this! :biglaugh:Here we have a Pagan with a decidedly anti-Christian mindset, basing her belief that Joseph Smith is a false prophet on New Testament scriptures which she also rejects, and denouncing him for claiming to be a prophet when, according to Islamic doctrine, which she also rejects, Mohammad was supposedly the last prophet! Melissa, you made my day. I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time.

Now i understand why call you "feisty"

 

[nutshell]

don't kid yourself. no matter if you had overwhelming evidence or even if you were able to hold the golden plates in your hands and flip through the pages you wouldn't believe it any more than you do now.

and exactly what feelings regarding the book of mormon and joseph smith do you have? not logic rationalization, i mean true hard feelings, emotion? most likely you don't have any because you haven't asked for confirmation of it. if you had emotions regarding it you would be like melissa who is obviously anti-mormon.

there are 3 types of people in this world in regards to the LDS church. those who are members, those who don't know much about it, and those who are anti-mormon.

you can say "i don't care one way or another" but in reality, you either believe it or you don't. and if you don't believe it, or don't want to even hear it, you are anti-mormon, even if you don't openly slander us, still anti-mormon. other than that you haven't learned what exactly we believe, which would put you under the "don't know much about it."

That's ridiculous.

I know plenty of people who know a lot about the LDS church and have simply decided it's not for them. That doesn't make them anti.

 

[Melissa G]

Oh, man, it doesn't get much better than this! :biglaugh:Here we have a Pagan with a decidedly anti-Christian mindset, basing her belief that Joseph Smith is a false prophet on New Testament scriptures which she also rejects, and denouncing him for claiming to be a prophet when, according to Islamic doctrine, which she also rejects, Mohammad was supposedly the last prophet! Melissa, you made my day. I haven't had such a good laugh in a long time.

I'm not basing my belief that Smith was/is a fraud on the NT, Only that if I was still in Church of England, that would my take. What I'm saying is, by the holy texts of other religions, Smith is a false prophet. What don't you undertsand about that ? I haven't had such a good laugh either in awhile, from your rather arrogant reply.

I don't buy that BOM, because as I've repeatedly said, it has zero veracity in the real world.

Melissa