Joseph Smith - Prophet of God

[madhatter85]

Honestly, i know of many parents whos children fell away from the church and they in no way shun them, all they do is encourage them and help them in any ways they can.

 

[sojourner]

Yeah, as I said, the Mormons I've known have been great people. I don't know where the stories come from -- they are out there, unfortunately.

 

[madhatter85]

Yeah, as I said, the Mormons I've known have been great people. I don't know where the stories come from -- they are out there, unfortunately.

i didn't mean to sound as if i was arguing if i did. I realize that alot of peopel have stories and urban legends about a great number of demographics, alot of which are untrue.

*EDIT: Because Beckysoup is Nitpicky

 

[Bishka]

i didn't mean to sound as if i was arguing if i did. I realize that alot of peopel have stories about a grean number of demographics, none of which are true.

Come again?

So any story that people tell about their experiences is not true?

 

[madhatter85]

happy now beckysoup?

 

[Bishka]

happy now beckysoup?

Thank you.

When you misspell words and jumble everything together, nobody is going to understand what you are saying.

Now, to your post.

Which urban legends/stories/etc. are you referring to? Not all stories about people leaving the LDS Church are false, or did you think they were all liars?

 

[madhatter85]

notice how i said "alot" i did not say all, read my posts more carefully next time.

 

[Bishka]

notice how i said "alot" i did not say all, read my posts more carefully next time.

You edited it.

In your first response (see post #904), which I have quote previous it says "none of which are true." So are you retracting that statement?

 

[madhatter85]

i said, i edited my post, note my reasons above. get back on topic

 

[Bishka]

i said, i edited my post, note my reasons above. get back on topic

You haven't given any reasons.

 

[nutshell]

Will you two get a room???

 

[Bishka]

Will you two get a room???

I've tried that (i.e. One-on-One debate), but madhatter just won't agree to it.

 

[Katzpur]

I lived in a community that had a high percentage of Mormons. i knew quite a few Mormons and ex-Mormons, too. I was told many stories of how difficult it was for them to leave Mormonism, because their families shunned them.

I have personally known dozens upon dozens of ex-Mormons. In my experience, none of them have been shunned by their families. That said, I'm sure it is difficult for some people to leave the Church, but that's not because they fear being shunned. It would be far more likely that they would hesitate to leave because they know their family members would be devastated by the news. If they are close to their families, they may be concerned about hurting those they love. Whether or not that is a legitimate fear, I know from personal experience that however heartbroken families may be over a son, daughter, sibling, etc. who decides to leave the Church, the idea of shunning that family member simply wouldn't enter the minds of most Latter-day Saints.

One lady told me that she used to be a social services worker in Utah. Every August, when all the men left for their hunting trips, her office would have to hire extra help. Their office was inundated with women and children who came in to file for divorce and leave the country, where their husbands couldn't find them and drag them back. She told me that the percentage of family abuse is higher in Utah than the national average, and that many of the women she helped left to escape such abuse, and the hunting parties that brought them back against their will.

Well, to that, I'd have to say that this lady had a hell of an imagination.

 

[sojourner]

Some people want to villify Mormons -- make them less than human. Some want to raise them to an almost superhuman condition. Some challenge Mormon's statements and stances by holding them to a higher standard than the challenger holds him/herself to.

Why can't everyone realize that Mormons are human, like everyone else, and that they are subject to human greatness and human folly, just like everyone else?

It really makes me no nevermind that they believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I don't believe that he was...but then...I'm not a Mormon. I respect that belief, and their right to believe it, even if I don't agree with it. But for them, it's truth and should be allowed into the mix of debate.

 

[lunamoth]

Some people want to villify Mormons -- make them less than human. Some want to raise them to an almost superhuman condition. Some challenge Mormon's statements and stances by holding them to a higher standard than the challenger holds him/herself to.

Why can't everyone realize that Mormons are human, like everyone else, and that they are subject to human greatness and human folly, just like everyone else?

It really makes me no nevermind that they believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I don't believe that he was...but then...I'm not a Mormon. I respect that belief, and their right to believe it, even if I don't agree with it. But for them, it's truth and should be allowed into the mix of debate.

I don't know Soj, that raises an interesting point. Can a prophet be a prophet just for some people? If a prophet tells an eternal truth, wouldn't that be a truth for everyone everywhere?

A related question, can a prophet be a prophet if he tells some eternal truth, but is very wrong about other things?

 

[madhatter85]

I don't know Soj, that raises an interesting point. Can a prophet be a prophet just for some people? If a prophet tells an eternal truth, wouldn't that be a truth for everyone everywhere?

A related question, can a prophet be a prophet if he tells some eternal truth, but is very wrong about other things?

very good question. No, a person who claims to be a prophet is one of two things, A madman (someone on par which whome he thinks of himself as a poached egg), or a true prophet of God.

You cannot say that Joseph smith was a "great moral teacher" Either he was a True Prophet or he was a madman or worse. there is no middle ground. Yes it sounds alot like sudden death, but the same is said for Jesus Christ, He was either the Son of God, the savior of the world, or he wasn't and just a lunatic, or worse.

Why? because of the claims, and because of the seriousness of the allegations, It has to do with the eternal welfare of our souls.

 

[!Fluffy!]

And despite the fact that many of them became his enemies, not a single one of the eleven who saw and held the plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated ever denied that their experience. They may have had their disagreements with Joseph Smith, but they never recanted the statements that appear in the front of the Book of Mormon

As a matter of fact, they did revise their statements considerably under close questioning and admitted for the most part they "saw" the plates "in the spirit" without ever actually seeing or having handled them.

Honestly, where do you get this nonsense from anyway?

Honestly, your assessment of what is and isn't nonsense is seriously flawed. The BoM, for example, is nonsense. Claiming that Joseph Smith had enemies and that the Mormon Church has enemies is not nonsense.

How many people do you know who have "abandoned Mormonism" and how has the Church made enemies of them.

Dozens. The Church has made enemies of its apostates from the beginning, you and others here have made frequent references to Joseph Smith's ex-friends as enemies.

The amount of antagonism directed towards an apostate is in direct proportion to their activism and standing within the church; an ex-Mormon archeologist who publishes findings which conflict with the BoM is more likely to come under fire than someone who just quietly quits attending and moves on.

The whole hurry up and resign before you get excommunicated scenario is a typical example of the hard time given to those who want to leave, not to mention the practice of insisting these people's under age children have to sign the letter of resignation. But that's the very least of it.

For example, we all know how much hatred has been directed at the Tanners. This hatred has taken the form of hate mail and death threats for many years.

Let's have some specifics.

Why? I'd be more than happy - but you wouldn't believe them anyway.

There is no love lost between TBMs and ex Mormons, and everyone knows it. To deny it is just silly. There are thousands. If you want me to post some, I will. But you don't want me to.

Was that supposed to be a link? If so, it didn't work.

It's easy enough to look it up in wiki.

Katz: !Fluffy! hangs around CARM now. I'm sure it's good for his/her ego.

Uh oh, sounds like somebunny got a little spanking :biglaugh:

And gee, you were the one who told us how great it was nutshell, or did you forget?

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...entalism-blacks-priesthood-11.html#post981619

I saw this post of yours and went over there to check it out. I wander around 3 or 4 forums regularly (you of all people have a problem with that??) As to my gender, it's right there in plain sight like it always has been.

You mean C.hristians A.cting R.eal M.oronic?

That's just .... juvenile. As a matter of fact we could use that acronym to label the less-than-substantive posts here of, er, some people.

Not all stories about people leaving the LDS Church are false, or did you think they were all liars?

Exactly, and I doubt if any of you would like to go down that road on this thread. Seriously.

 

[Popeyesays]

Some people want to villify Mormons -- make them less than human. Some want to raise them to an almost superhuman condition. Some challenge Mormon's statements and stances by holding them to a higher standard than the challenger holds him/herself to.

Why can't everyone realize that Mormons are human, like everyone else, and that they are subject to human greatness and human folly, just like everyone else?

It really makes me no nevermind that they believe Joseph Smith was a prophet. I don't believe that he was...but then...I'm not a Mormon. I respect that belief, and their right to believe it, even if I don't agree with it. But for them, it's truth and should be allowed into the mix of debate.

When anyone makes a real investment in following the will of God to their best ability it is meritorious in the eys of God, I am sure.

Well, said--frubals on your head.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Autodidact]

very good question. No, a person who claims to be a prophet is one of two things, A madman (someone on par which whome he thinks of himself as a poached egg), or a true prophet of God.

You cannot say that Joseph smith was a "great moral teacher" Either he was a True Prophet or he was a madman or worse. there is no middle ground. Yes it sounds alot like sudden death, but the same is said for Jesus Christ, He was either the Son of God, the savior of the world, or he wasn't and just a lunatic, or worse.

Why? because of the claims, and because of the seriousness of the allegations, It has to do with the eternal welfare of our souls.

Isn't there at lest one other choice, a con artist? How bout combination of con artist and nutjob--someone who starts out as a con and then comes to believe his own spiel? I think that's what many religious leaders are.

And if he was a moral teacher, he wasn't a great one; he was a lousy one.

 

[Katzpur]

!Fluffy!, autodidact, and Melissa,

I've got to say that in the two-and-a-half years I've been a member of RF, I can't recall reading as many rude posts from all the anti-Mormons put together as I have from the three of you on this thread. I realize that to you, this is all just a game. It's not to me. You're trashing the things I hold sacred. I guess you get something out of it; otherwise, you wouldn't be doing it. Personally, I can't even imagine saying the kinds of things about someone else's beliefs or religious leaders you've said about mine. I wonder how you would feel if the tables were turned. Anyway, I won't be posting on this thread any more. It really does makes me feel bad that the three of you have such a negative opinion of my religion. I wish you could see all the good there is in it.