Joseph Smith Was Not A Martyr

[silvermoon383]

I wonder what other Wiccans would say when they saw the way you're acting Witch of Hope. I've had the pleasure of knowing many over the years and they all act completely opposite of how you act. They are among some of the nicest people I know, but you are doing nothing but bringing shame to the title.

 

[McBell]

To say the truth about something is not bashing someone.

I agree.
However, your source has been shown to be one of the most (if not THE most) unreliable sources for Mormon information.

You have been flat out told this, yet you still sing the Mormon bashing song.

So why would you continue with a source as unreliable as the one you cling to?
Do you not have a better source for all the "truth" you present?

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Yes, nobody is perfect! But the Mormons did always, as their prophet was perfect even as he did something wrong!

Huh?

I am assuming you were trying to say: But Mormons did always, say thier prophet was perfect even as he did wrong.

Here is something I have learned about the LDS church, as I am an ex member probably going to turn some form of pagan as well...

Do not judge any religion by the people. Judge it by the doctrine. Not a translation of the doctrine. Not a reiteration of the doctrine. Not what ex-members carry away in scorn. Not assumptions or biased misunderstandings. Just what the church has written in stone by thier own hand. Read that. Judge that yourself. Don't let anyone do this judging for you as you seem to be doing.

I don't think you mean harm, but I do think you need to sharpen your BS detector and dig deeper.

 

[ljam49]

So if I wait until April, you might answer it? :biglaugh:What I'm getting from this statement is that, if you were to answer my question, you would be getting your answer from the Tanners. And if they say, the LDS Church "fought to stop [this information] from being published," that makes it so? How gullible are you really?

So you would prefer to get your information from non-official sources as opposed to official sources, I see. What's wrong with using our official, authorized sources? What's wrong with referring to what we actually teach? LDS history is as "incriminating" at the source of that history makes it. Do you get your world news from CNN or from the National Enquirer? Do you think those two sources are equally valid?

Anyway, I've decided not to bother responding to those questions on this thread after all. This thread is a discussion on whether Joseph Smith was a martyr or not, and those questions have absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

There is no way to defend what the Tanners say that I think can be proven unless I have some of the books they wrote. I did not memorize the books. I explained my situation about just coming out of a surgery. There is not much I can do to get those books right now.

I knew I would hit the nail on the head with the "that's not official doctrine" excuse. This is the only way that mormons can get around all of the embarrassing and untrue things that your own leaders taught. What I posted came straight from the teachings of Joseph Smith as authorized by your own Church. Did you catch that? Your Church authorized that writing. Right on the front page of the book. Are you really that gullible?

Why is it that its ok for you derail the thread with your questions and I am to answer them, but all of the sudden your ready to play by the rules? Thing about it is, the most incrimenating thing about mormonism is its own history. Just like Brigham Young teaching that there were people living on the sun (something he said God revealed to him). Modern day mormons say, now we know more and they just did not have the revealed truth that we have now. That does not excuse the fact that he taught those untruths. Just how many people did they lead astray?

As a Christian I believe what the Bible says in its entirety. I am sure just like the rest that believe the Bible as inerrant that the Council of Necaea knew exactly what it was doing under the guidance of God. (S. Baptist membership is around 10 million). The heretical writings that were refused we do not have anything to do with. The problems for mormons is that the heretical writings of your leaders cannot be done away with because then you would have to deny your leaders.(which cannot be done, because you would have to then deny your own religion on that basis) If you had to do that, you would have to start with your own leader Joseph Smith. You proved that because you had to refuse to rebute the statements I just posted in my last post that came straight from him as authorized by your own chruch.

 

[McBell]

... I Believe what the Bible says in its entirety...

fixed

 

[ljam49]

:biglaugh:

I fixed that just as quick as you watched and caught it.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I knew I would hit the nail on the head with the "that's not official doctrine" excuse.

Is that really an "excuse?"

That's kind of like Sally partaking in butt love in a particular state. Joe-Bob cop is peeping through the window, then busts in and arrests Sally.

Sally says, "That is not officially agianst the law."

Joe-Bob says, "That's not an excuse!"

:areyoucra

This is the only way that mormons can get around all of the embarrassing and untrue things that your own leaders taught. Thing about it is, the most incrimenating thing about mormonism is its own history. Just like Brigham Young teaching that there were people living on the sun (something he said God revealed to him). Modern day mormons say, now we know more and they just did not have the revealed truth that we have now. That does not excuse the fact that he taught those untruths. Just how many people did they lead astray?

Oh my goodness BY had a goofy vision and thought it was divinely inspired and said goofy crap. On my ***** God call the firing squad. There is no history in the LDS church of witch burnings, inquisitions, boy raping in mass ridiculous amount, overthrowing kings and making church-states, etc...

Let's burn down the LDS church because they are the only ones who don't cower in the face of thier history, but instead admit it was skewed and is now amended in thier doctrine and the church evolves and the prophets realize new truths pertaining to our time. Oh my ***** God what are they thinking!!! Admit they were wrong and they know more now?! What a ridiculous thing for a church to do that is supposed to know the whole truth! Especially when that is only member personal opinion and there are mormon scriptures that direct otherwise! That they do acknowledge truth in other places, and encourage eternal progression... GASP!

As a Christian I follow what the Bible says in its entirety.

Why am I even taking the time to reply agian? Someone smack me.

I am sure just like the rest that follow the Bible as inerrant that the Council of Necaea knew exactly what it was doing under the guidance of God.

Right. Just like every other divinely inspired flawed human being that thinks they know everything because they get a glimpse of something true and real, and then think they know everything and everyone should bow before their ways.

The problems for mormons is that the heretical writings of your leaders cannot be done away with because then you would have to deny your leaders.(which cannot be done, because you would have to then deny your own religion on that basis) If you had to do that, you would have to start with your own leader Joseph Smith.

Right... or they could just admit that they know more now, accept it, and move on, as they seem to be doing.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I fixed that just as quick as you watched and caught it.

That's a step in the right direction. Even though you fixed it. We read it and we are going to persecute you for it now. You said it. No going back now. It's in the history books.

 

[McBell]

I fixed that just as quick as you watched and caught it.

Fair enough.

I fixed my post.

 

[Witch of Hope]

I wonder what other Wiccans would say when they saw the way you're acting Witch of Hope. I've had the pleasure of knowing many over the years and they all act completely opposite of how you act. They are among some of the nicest people I know, but you are doing nothing but bringing shame to the title.

Every person has a past. And so do I. And as a former member of the LDS church i know a lot of this church.
Wiccans has also a past, and some of them comes from a christian background, others from a sect (like me). Some would be aggree with me, others not. So, what is the problem? Isn't it allowed to a wicca to speak bad about a religion? Yes, if they speak the truth. Truth sometimes hurts, but it help us to grow.

 

[challupa]

That's a step in the right direction. Even though you fixed it. We read it and we are going to persecute you for it now. You said it. No going back now. It's in the history books.

Hmm wonder if poor ole Jesus ever had that happen to him...

Oh and here's your smack you asked for in the previous post:slap:

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

Fair enough.

I fixed my post.

Nooooooooooo!

Mestemia,

your going soft on me here. We've gotta man up and take down the enemy.












**I'm assuming they know I'm playing

 

[Witch of Hope]

I agree.
However, your source has been shown to be one of the most (if not THE most) unreliable sources for Mormon information.

You have been flat out told this, yet you still sing the Mormon bashing song.

So why would you continue with a source as unreliable as the one you cling to?
Do you not have a better source for all the "truth" you present?

I have a lot of sources,even Mormons. But they are not as a File on my PC, they are only books, like "No man knows my history" or "Mormon Enigma". But to me the sources with a lot of photoprints of church books are most believable.

 

[challupa]

As a Christian I believe what the Bible says in its entirety. I am sure just like the rest that believe the Bible as inerrant that the Council of Necaea knew exactly what it was doing under the guidance of God. (S. Baptist membership is around 10 million). The heretical writings that were refused we do not have anything to do with. The problems for mormons is that the heretical writings of your leaders cannot be done away with because then you would have to deny your leaders.(which cannot be done, because you would have to then deny your own religion on that basis) If you had to do that, you would have to start with your own leader Joseph Smith. You proved that because you had to refuse to rebute the statements I just posted in my last post that came straight from him as authorized by your own chruch.

LOL and that's why they had to pick and choose. In all your reading, have you ever read from the Nag Hammadi library. Have you ever heard of, or read, the Gospel of Mary Magdelene? There was a huge war that went on between Christians when the bible was formed. The ones who were the most ruthless and had the backing of a pagan Emperor are the ones that won that bloodbath. It is also true that this pagan Emperor had an agenda also. When he came into power there were 3 rulers of Rome and that was how it was set up. Constantine didn't like it and wanted to be the "only" ruler. So he decided if he backed the Christians that believed in only one god, then he was within his rights to declare himself the only ruler. It was considered that the rulers were gods in their own right. So a mono god meant a mono ruler. Total politics. So what went into the bible is not necessarily right, it is merely what was chosen by those who "won". And if you don't think they had an agenda, then I have a bridge I would like to sell you too.

 

[LoTrobador]

I am sure just like the rest that believe the Bible as inerrant that the Council of Necaea knew exactly what it was doing under the guidance of God.

Neither the First nor the Second Council of Nicaea said anything about the canon of the Scriptures. And I've never seen 'an assembly of some Christian bishops held approximately in the 4th century is to say which Christian writings are the New Testament' in the Bible (nor 'the Bible is totally without error, and free from all contradiction, referring to the complete accuracy of Scripture, including the historical and scientific parts' for that matter).

 

[ljam49]

If you are willing to judge, you must also be open to judgment.

I can do that. But since your a deist and do not believe the Bible there is nothing we can debate over.

 

[McBell]

I can do that. But since your a deist and do not believe the Bible there is nothing we can debate over.

Are you serious?
Yet here you are on RF starting Mormon bashing threads under the guise of debate?

 

[Witch of Hope]

Do not judge any religion by the people. Judge it by the doctrine. Not a translation of the doctrine. Not a reiteration of the doctrine. Not what ex-members carry away in scorn. Not assumptions or biased misunderstandings. Just what the church has written in stone by thier own hand. Read that. Judge that yourself. Don't let anyone do this judging for you as you seem to be doing.

I don't think you mean harm, but I do think you need to sharpen your BS detector and dig deeper.

I didn't judge the Mormons, but i tell to others how I met them in a lot of different forums.
If Mormons would say that they are just another church with normal people (even their prophets), it would be okay to me.But they said that they are the "true and only church", and that Joseph Smith was almost perfect. He was it not. He was human. With all the good and bad stuff humans did.
By the way, what is a "BS detector"?

 

[challupa]

I can do that. But since your a deist and do not believe the Bible there is nothing we can debate over.

If that's the case, then you cannot debate with a Mormon over their faith either, cause you are not one.

 

[challupa]

I didn't judge the Mormons, but i tell to others how I met them in a lot of different forums.
If Mormons would say that they are just another church with normal people (even their prophets), it would be okay to me.But they said that they are the "true and only church", and that Joseph Smith was almost perfect. He was it not. He was human. With all the good and bad stuff humans did.
By the way, what is a "BS detector"?

Listen, there are many churches that say that. I was raised in a christian religion called the 2x2's and that is exactly what they teach and believe whole heartedly. They absolutely, 100% believe that only the few people that belong to that religion are "saved". That means that under a million people in this world are saved. The rest of you all are hooped. This isn't something new. While I dont' agree with it, it doesn't mean churches don't believe it.