Judaism, Christianity, and the Jewish Faith

[ZenMonkey]

It's based on doing acts that bring you closer to G-D.

... and avoiding acting in a manner that could potentially help separate you from God also? Who is God to you, though? Can God be identified or is God somewhat mysterious in Judaism? Can God be known aside from what's been written about him in your holy books? How do you connect and how do you know if you're truly connecting?

 

[ZenMonkey]

As far as your question about what are the Messianic prophesies...

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance (Isaiah 2:4)

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8–10)

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)

For My House (the Temple in Jerusalem) shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3–7)

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvoth

He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)
Michah 4

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore.

Ezekiel 37


21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land. כא. (bring all the jews to Israel

22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore. כב. One recognized king

23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God. כג. All nations will worship one G-D

24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them. כד. Descendent of David


25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever. כה.All the jews will stay in Israel forever

26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever. כו. The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever


27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people. כז.


28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever." The temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever

I'm aware of what will be done, but my question is more about how you expect him to do it?

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Your missing one huge point.

Judaism as you know it, is only due the culture being crushed yet again, when the temple fell.

You may only know the religion as it was rebuilt under Pharisaic Judaism.


Nothing was solidified in Judaism until almost the same time as Christianity had a canon.

Judaism was in a constant state of evolution from proto Jews from 1200-1000 BC until monotheism had taken hold roughly 200-400 BC during the Hellenization under Roman oppression.

I don't see how I missed that point. Until there was a canon there was nothing to hold any of the religions down that didn't have a definite leadership. And even then it changed over time.

 

[Sleeppy]

Devarim 13:1
א. אֵת כָּל הַדָּבָר אֲשֶׁר אָנֹכִי מְצַוֶּה אֶתְכֶם אֹתוֹ תִשְׁמְרוּ לַעֲשׂוֹת לֹא תֹסֵף עָלָיו וְלֹא תִגְרַע מִמֶּנּוּ:

1 All this word which I command you, that shall ye observe to do; thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

This is not proof.

The end result? The end result would be to keep what has been entrusted to us.
We don't even walk around and tell everyone to do the same.

But yeah because we uphold the law we only think about the ceremony etc. Of course.

And what observable benefits result from keeping each law entrusted to you? Are these benefits exclusive to these laws? Give examples.

Berei**** 17:11
And you shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin, and it shall be as the sign of a covenant between Me and between you.

Who is the sign for? If it is for those wearing the sign-- will certain covenant laws be forgotten or disregarded if not worn? Which ones? What does the sign benefit?

 

[Flankerl]

This is not proof.

Usually you accept scriptural proof. This time you dont.

Who would have thought.

And what observable benefits result from keeping each law entrusted to you? Are these benefits exclusive to these laws? Give examples.

A benefit would be to please God because he wanted us to keep his laws.
I know crazy stuff.

Who is the sign for? If it is for those wearing the sign-- will certain covenant laws be forgotten or disregarded if not worn? Which ones? What does the sign benefit?

I'd answer but i dont like the tone of your "voice".

Long story short: We will keep the laws and not pester anyone about it.

 

[Akivah]

If the messiah were to appear and the Jewish community refuses to alter from the old ways ...

There's your problem right there. Many Christians like to call our beliefs (and bible) "old", as if they've been replaced or need to be replaced. Actually, G-d's commandments to us are Eternal. He never told us about them expiring or needing to be replaced at some point in the future. In fact, G-d told us to keep His commandments for all time. And He explicitly told us that if anyone tried to replace His commandments, that we could take that as proof that the person is false.

 

[Desert Snake]

There's your problem right there. Christians like to call our beliefs (and bible) "old", as if they've been replaced or need to be replaced. Actually, G-d's commandments to us are Eternal. He never told us about them expiring or needing to be replaced at some point in the future. In fact, G-d told us to keep His commandments for all time. And He explicitly told us that if anyone tried to replace His commandments, that we could take that as proof that the person is false.

That's far too broad of a generalization.

 

[Akivah]

I'm aware of what will be done, but my question is more about how you expect him to do it?

We don't know the "how", just as we don't know the "how" of most things in the bible like G-d creating the world. All we do know is that G-d said it would happen sometime in the future. Since we have full trust in G-d, we know that it will happen sometime. May it come speedily in our days.

 

[Akivah]

That's far too broad of a generalization.

Ok. Many Christians then.

 

[outhouse]

I don't see how I missed that point. Until there was a canon there was nothing to hold any of the religions down that didn't have a definite leadership. And even then it changed over time.

The OT did not hold anyone down.

They had no leadership until after the temple fell

 

[ZenMonkey]

There's your problem right there. Many Christians like to call our beliefs (and bible) "old", as if they've been replaced or need to be replaced. Actually, G-d's commandments to us are Eternal. He never told us about them expiring or needing to be replaced at some point in the future. In fact, G-d told us to keep His commandments for all time. And He explicitly told us that if anyone tried to replace His commandments, that we could take that as proof that the person is false.

Maybe old isn't an appropriate term. Ancient would be much more accurate. My point is if there is no room for change, then what more can be done than what's already being done? They're old laws. That's all I was alluding to. Most people aren't under the obligation to follow them. I would be considered a Gentile, but not a Christian. I do try to live my life according to Jesus' teachings, but this is only because they make sense to me. I can see great benefit in doing so. I also relate to the likes of Stephen Covey, the Buddha, Dali Lama, and Gandhi. I can call Jesus my lord (chief/high priest) but only because I look to his teachings for guidance. I mostly rely on love to guide my steps. For me, there's nothing to be replaced. There's only forward movement in love and hope that I'll receive enough grace to live through love in all I do one day.

Namaste,

 

[Desert Snake]

Maybe old isn't an appropriate term. Ancient would be much more accurate. My point is if there is no room for change, then what more can be done than what's already being done? They're old laws. That's all I was alluding to. Most people aren't under the obligation to follow them. I would be considered a Gentile, but not a Christian. I do try to live my life according to Jesus' teachings, but this is only because they make sense to me. I can see great benefit in doing so. I also relate to the likes of Stephen Covey, the Buddha, Dali Lama, and Gandhi. I can call Jesus my lord (chief/high priest) but only because I look to his teachings for guidance. I mostly rely on love to guide my steps. For me, there's nothing to be replaced. There's only forward movement in love and hope that I'll receive enough grace to live through love in all I do one day.

Namaste,

It's all one Covenant to me. I don't know how why or when people started to separate the Old and New Covenants into two separate things, and I'm ceasing to care. Jesus never said to abandon the previous Covenant, these are just descriptive terms to delineate traditional laws from modified laws.

 

[ZenMonkey]

It's all one Covenant to me. I don't know how why or when people started to separate the Old and New Covenants into two separate things, and I'm ceasing to care. Jesus never said to abandon the previous Covenant, these are just descriptive terms to delineate traditional laws from modified laws.

I might agree - Jesus actually spoke against those who might try to influence others to do so. Matt 5:19 if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Akivah]

My point is if there is no room for change, then what more can be done than what's already being done?

Well, more people can actually follow G-d's Laws. Each of us, including me, have room to do things better.

I mostly rely on love to guide my steps. For me, there's nothing to be replaced. There's only forward movement in love and hope that I'll receive enough grace to live through love in all I do one day.

It sounds like you're doing well.

 

[CMike]

Maybe old isn't an appropriate term. Ancient would be much more accurate. My point is if there is no room for change, then what more can be done than what's already being done? They're old laws. That's all I was alluding to. Most people aren't under the obligation to follow them. I would be considered a Gentile, but not a Christian. I do try to live my life according to Jesus' teachings, but this is only because they make sense to me. I can see great benefit in doing so. I also relate to the likes of Stephen Covey, the Buddha, Dali Lama, and Gandhi. I can call Jesus my lord (chief/high priest) but only because I look to his teachings for guidance. I mostly rely on love to guide my steps. For me, there's nothing to be replaced. There's only forward movement in love and hope that I'll receive enough grace to live through love in all I do one day.

Namaste,

The laws are current.

There is always room to improve ourselves.

For example, the Torah law of "Love your neighbor like yourself", how many people carry out that law perfectly? My guess is zero.

We can always improve, that doesn't mean that the Torah laws themselves improve.

 

[CMike]

I'm aware of what will be done, but my question is more about how you expect him to do it?

Actually the Messiah himself is not all that important in Judaism, it's the Messianic era when these even will occur that is paramount.

 

[CMike]

This is not proof.




And what observable benefits result from keeping each law entrusted to you? Are these benefits exclusive to these laws? Give examples.




Who is the sign for? If it is for those wearing the sign-- will certain covenant laws be forgotten or disregarded if not worn? Which ones? What does the sign benefit?

Since we base are laws based on what is written in the Torah, it's proof for us.

 

[gsa]

Nothing that matches first century Judaism.

True. But certainly the arguments about the fulfilment of prophecy are at least somewhat analogous to arguments that would have been made at the time. I think that the criticism I was responding to was largely directed at modern Christian exposure to modern branches of Judaism, though. Akivah can correct me if I am wrong on that.

 

[Harikrish]

Should the Jews seriously question their faith? God made a covenant with them and gave them his laws and commandments. Along comes the Christians who change a few Jewish doctrines and turn it into a very successful religion for 2 billion Christians/Gentiles.

600 hundred years after Jesus another prophet shows up and with a few corrections to the original Jewish characters turns out another religion for 1.4 billion Muslims. We have 14 million Jews stuck with a very unpopular interpretation of God and a very small strip of land to call their promised land. What is wrong with the picture and why aren't the Jews getting it?

 

[xkatz]

If the messiah were to appear and the Jewish community refuses to alter from the old ways...

From a Jewish PoV- Why would the messiah/moshiach dissuade Jews from following traditions which are rooted in G-d's commandments?