Judaism: Who did force YHVH to end the prophecy?

[Ratzzable]

NOT from a book gospel bible or teaching of men - but directly from His mind to mine - as He taught it should Be - if only we learned to listen to Him

Promulgating the YHWH Name is just an old teaching which means the meditation on the Logos to free the thinking mind and following the religious laws that where current in the time of Mose, the promulgation of the Name of God reached its peak in the Zoharic era and it only relies on the thinking mind not on the laws on action and reaction like meditation on the relationship between Shivu and Shakti energies thus beeing inperfect leaving out the female creation energy(simmilar to your Sophia). The Main thing that the promulgation of YHWH had tought us is the unification on religious laws that where current before Mose and that in the created world everything will be repeated in the order of the repetition of that same Holy Name

 

[Sleeppy]

The chapter doesn't have that many verses.



That's a problem that you made up. They have demonstrably not been fulfilled, so your issue is clearly not an issue that the verse is uncomfortable with.

Jeremiah 31:29,30.

This deserves another thread. But, are you saying you aren't able to fulfill verses 29 and 30?

 

[rosends]

Jeremiah 31:29,30.

This deserves another thread. But, are you saying you aren't able to fulfill verses 29 and 30?

I know I can't -- those days haven't come and the house of Israel is still exiled and hasn't been returned (as is promised in 20-22).

 

[Sleeppy]

I know I can't -- those days haven't come and the house of Israel is still exiled and hasn't been returned (as is promised in 20-22).

So, what has to happen before:

1) In those days they do not say any more: Fathers have eaten unripe fruit, And the sons' teeth are blunted.

&

2) But -- each for his own iniquity doth die, Every man who is eating the unripe fruit, Blunted are his teeth.

 

[Tumah]

Jeremiah 31:29,30.

This deserves another thread. But, are you saying you aren't able to fulfill verses 29 and 30?

What do you mean by saying that I am not able to fulfill it? I'm not G-d.
Look at the whole chapter. These are all Messianic prophecies. Half of the world population of Jews are in exile. Verses 6-16 all speak about an in-gathering of exiles "from the ends of the earth". That hasn't happened yet. Does the constant terror in Israel resonate with this chapter that speaks about rejoicing and dancing?

There's a whole chapter of things that haven't happened yet. This proves that the time period its speaking about, hasn't come yet. I don't understand how you are reading this chapter and that doesn't immediately become apparent.

 

[rosends]

So, what has to happen before:

1) In those days they do not say any more: Fathers have eaten unripe fruit, And the sons' teeth are blunted.

&

2) But -- each for his own iniquity doth die, Every man who is eating the unripe fruit, Blunted are his teeth.

God has to decide that "those days" have come and then all sorts of stuff has to happen, especially the ingathering of exiles.

 

[Sleeppy]

God has to decide that "those days" have come and then all sorts of stuff has to happen, especially the ingathering of exiles.

My point exactly. You're compelled to put off the simplest things, in favor of things unnecessary to their completion. The result:

You are unable and unwilling to say, "...each for his own iniquity doth die..."

That should be very counter-intuitive to the Jewish thought that says sin, and the consequences thereof, are not inherited.

 

[Sleeppy]

What do you mean by saying that I am not able to fulfill it? I'm not G-d.
Look at the whole chapter. These are all Messianic prophecies. Half of the world population of Jews are in exile. Verses 6-16 all speak about an in-gathering of exiles "from the ends of the earth". That hasn't happened yet. Does the constant terror in Israel resonate with this chapter that speaks about rejoicing and dancing?

There's a whole chapter of things that haven't happened yet. This proves that the time period its speaking about, hasn't come yet. I don't understand how you are reading this chapter and that doesn't immediately become apparent.

If I say,

"In those days, the sun will shine, birds will fall from the sky, children will enlighten their parents, dogs will bark, trees will wither from heat, earthquakes will shake the foundations of the earth, and extraterrestrials will visit mankind,"

Are you also going to say that the sun will not shine, birds won't fall, parents can't learn from their parents, etc., because extraterrestrials haven't visited us?


It's utterly ridiculous to expect a 'time period', that no one works for, but which explicitly requires certain actions to be performed, of which most are not hindered by anything but procrastination.

 

[Tumah]

If I say,

"In those days, the sun will shine, birds will fall from the sky, children will enlighten their parents, dogs will bark, trees will wither from heat, earthquakes will shake the foundations of the earth, and extraterrestrials will visit mankind,"

Are you also going to say that the sun will not shine, birds won't fall, parents can't learn from their parents, etc., because extraterrestrials haven't visited us?


It's utterly ridiculous to expect a 'time period', that no one works for, but which explicitly requires certain actions to be performed, of which most are not hindered by anything but procrastination.

No. In your example, I would expect within a certain defined time frame all the evens described will occur. I would not expect that one day birds will fall from the sky. And then 40 years later there will be a big earthquake. I would say that even though elements resembling your prophecy have occurred, they have yet to occur in fulfillment of your prophecy. If they don't all happen, then none of them happened as intended by the prophecy. If G-d intended that these be completely unrelated events, than He could have put them in completely unrelated prophecies as He has done with so many other unrelated events.
We are not commanded to fulfill prophecy. That wouldn't be a prophecy, that would be a commandment. These are things that G-d will cause to happen.

 

[Tumah]

My point exactly. You're compelled to put off the simplest things, in favor of things unnecessary to their completion. The result:

You are unable and unwilling to say, "...each for his own iniquity doth die..."

That should be very counter-intuitive to the Jewish thought that says sin, and the consequences thereof, are not inherited.

Another option, is that you didn't know as much as you thought about Jewish thought.

Master said... I don't [understand]! But it says, "He recalls the sins of the fathers on the children (Ex. 34:7)" and it says, "And the children will not die for the fathers (Deut. 24:16)". And we asked [about the contradiction] of the verses against each other. And we answered, 'It is not a question. This one (ie. the first verse) is when they grab the deeds of their fathers in their hands (ie. transgress the same sins). And this one is when they don't grab the deeds of their fathers in their hands.'...
-Talmud​

 

[rosends]

My point exactly. You're compelled to put off the simplest things, in favor of things unnecessary to their completion. The result:

You are unable and unwilling to say, "...each for his own iniquity doth die..."

That should be very counter-intuitive to the Jewish thought that says sin, and the consequences thereof, are not inherited.

I am not putting anything off -- you are ignoring what the text says. It says that in "those days" certain things would happen. Are you claiming that they have happened?

As to the last line, you don't understand Jewish thought, then. You might want to read Ex 20:5 and rethink your position.

 

[Sleeppy]

I am not putting anything off -- you are ignoring what the text says. It says that in "those days" certain things would happen. Are you claiming that they have happened?

As to the last line, you don't understand Jewish thought, then. You might want to read Ex 20:5 and rethink your position.

Yes. I am claiming that many of these things are happening daily; some since Adam's time.

The doctrine of original sin is totally unacceptable to Jews (as it is to Christian sects such as Baptists and Assemblies of G-d). Jews believe that man enters the world free of sin, with a soul that is pure and innocent and untainted. While there were some Jewish teachers in Talmudic times who believed that death was a punishment brought upon mankind on account of Adam's sin, the dominant view by far was that man sins because he is not a perfect being, and not, as Christianity teaches, because he is inherently sinful. -- Judaism's Rejection of Original Sin | Jewish Virtual Library

 

[Sleeppy]

I am not putting anything off -- you are ignoring what the text says. It says that in "those days" certain things would happen. Are you claiming that they have happened?

When thou liftest up on thy brother a debt of anything, thou dost not go in unto his house to obtain his pledge; at the outside thou dost stand, and the man on whom thou art lifting [it] up is bringing out unto thee the pledge at the outside. And if he is a poor man, thou dost not lie down with his pledge; thou dost certainly give back to him the pledge at the going in of the sun, and he hath lain down in his own raiment, and hath blessed thee; and to thee it is righteousness before thy God. Thou dost not oppress a hireling, poor and needy, of thy brethren or of thy sojourner who is in thy land within thy gates; in his day thou dost give his hire, and the sun doth not go in upon it, for he [is] poor, and unto it he is lifting up his soul, and he doth not cry against thee unto God, and it hath been in thee -- sin. Fathers are not put to death for sons, and sons are not put to death for fathers -- each for his own sin, they are put to death. Thou dost not turn aside the judgment of a fatherless sojourner, nor take in pledge the garment of a widow; and thou hast remembered that a servant thou hast been in Egypt, and thy God doth ransom thee from thence; therefore I am commanding thee to do this thing.

The Spirit of the Lord God [is] on me, Because He did anoint me To proclaim tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind the broken of heart, To proclaim to captives liberty, And to bound ones an opening of bands. To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of God, And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all mourners. To appoint to mourners in Zion, To give to them beauty instead of ashes, The oil of joy instead of mourning, A covering of praise for a spirit of weakness, And He is calling to them, `Trees of righteousness, The planting of God -- to be beautified.' And they have built the wastes of old, The desolations of the ancients they raise up, And they have renewed waste cities, The desolations of generation and generation. And strangers have stood and fed your flock, Sons of a foreigner [are] your husbandmen, And your vine-dressers. And ye are called `Priests of God,' `Ministers of our God,' is said of you, The strength of nations ye consume, And in their honour ye do boast yourselves. Instead of your shame and confusion, A second time they sing of their portion, Therefore in their land A second time do they take possession, Joy age-during [is] for them. For I [am] God, loving [My] judgment, Hating plunder for a burnt-offering, And I have given their wage in truth, And a covenant age-during I make for them. And known among nations hath been their seed, And their offspring in the midst of the peoples, All their beholders acknowledge them, For they [are] a seed God hath blessed. I greatly rejoice in God, Joy doth my soul in my God, For He clothed me with garments of salvation, With a robe of righteousness covereth Me, As a bridegroom prepareth ornaments, And as a bride putteth on her jewels. For, as the earth bringeth forth her shoots, And as a garden causeth its sown things to shoot up, So the Lord God causeth righteousness and praise To shoot up before all the nations!

I am saying that if it is not done, it is because the simplest things are put off.

 

[rosends]

Yes. I am claiming that many of these things are happening daily; some since Adam's time.

So the house of Israel has been brought back? I had no idea.

 

[rosends]

I am saying that if it is not done, it is because the simplest things are put off.

Then they have been put off by God. The text tells me of the things God promises that HE will do. Ask him.

 

[Sleeppy]

Another option, is that you didn't know as much as you thought about Jewish thought.

Master said... I don't [understand]! But it says, "He recalls the sins of the fathers on the children (Ex. 34:7)" and it says, "And the children will not die for the fathers (Deut. 24:16)". And we asked [about the contradiction] of the verses against each other. And we answered, 'It is not a question. This one (ie. the first verse) is when they grab the deeds of their fathers in their hands (ie. transgress the same sins). And this one is when they don't grab the deeds of their fathers in their hands.'...
-Talmud​

I do know.

In this case, if children do not die in their father's stead, your Father in heaven would not have commanded that women and children be killed in this case:

Numbers 31:9-20
And the sons of Israel take captive the women of Midian, and their infants; and all their cattle, and all their substance, and all their wealth they have plundered; and all their cities, with their habitations, and all their towers, they have burnt with fire. And they take all the spoil, and all the prey, among man and among beast; and they bring in, unto Moses, and unto Eleazar the priest, and unto the company of the sons of Israel, the captives, and the prey, and the spoil, unto the camp, unto the plains of Moab, which [are] by Jordan, [near] Jericho. And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the company, go out to meet them, unto the outside of the camp, and Moses is wroth against the inspectors of the force, chiefs of the thousands, and chiefs of the hundreds, who are coming in from the host of the battle. And Moses saith unto them, `Have ye kept alive every female? lo, they -- they have been to the sons of Israel, through the word of Balaam, to cause a trespass against God in the matter of Peor, and the plague is in the company of God.`And now, slay ye every male among the infants, yea, every woman known of man by the lying of a male ye have slain; and all the infants among the women, who have not known the lying of a male, ye have kept alive for yourselves. And ye, encamp ye at the outside of the camp seven days -- any who hath slain a person, and any who hath come against a pierced one, ye cleanse yourselves on the third day, and on the seventh day -- ye and your captives; and every garment, and every skin vessel, and every work of goats' [hair], and every wooden vessel, ye yourselves cleanse.'

Come, and we turn back unto God, For He hath torn, and He doth heal us, He doth smite, and He bindeth us up. He doth revive us after two days, In the third day He doth raise us up, And we live before Him. And we know -- we pursue to know God, As the dawn prepared is His going forth, And He cometh in as a shower to us, As gathered rain -- sprinkling earth.' What do I do to thee, O Ephraim? What do I do to thee, O Judah? Your goodness [is] as a cloud of the morning, And as dew rising early -- going. Therefore I have hewed by prophets, I have slain them by sayings of My mouth, And My judgments to the light goeth forth. For kindness I desired, and not sacrifice, And a knowledge of God above burnt-offerings. And they, as Adam, transgressed a covenant, There they dealt treacherously against Me. Gilead [is] a city of workers of iniquity, Slippery from blood. And as bands do wait for a man, A company of priests do murder -- the way to Shechem, For wickedness they have done. In the house of Israel I have seen a horrible thing, There [is] the whoredom of Ephraim -- defiled is Israel.
Also, O Judah, appointed is a harvest to thee, In My turning back [to] the captivity of My people!

Jacob, the Son of Adam, should know to stop wrestling with God, and forgive his brother before the sun goes in, and certainly before it rises again.

 

[Sleeppy]

So the house of Israel has been brought back? I had no idea.

The remnants of the house of Israel have remained. The seed of the house of Israel has mingled with the seed of man and of beast, in their scattering.

 

[Sleeppy]

Then they have been put off by God. The text tells me of the things God promises that HE will do. Ask him.

They are, and they aren't put off. But you put off what is already Law.

 

[rosends]

The remnants of the house of Israel have remained. The seed of the house of Israel has mingled with the seed of man and of beast, in their scattering.

That's your read. Of course, if you look at the Jewish community, the house of Israel is still lost. So we wait. But hey, what do Jews know about Judaism and text given to Jews?

 

[rosends]

They are, and they aren't put off. But you put off what is already Law.

They aren't put off -- they just haven't happened yet.