Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

[Glaurung]

it is interesting to note that Christianity is dying where education is the best and growing where education is the worst. This should tell us something about Christianity's survival being solely dependent on keeping people dumb.

On the contrary. Christianity is declining where unprecedented wealth, comfort and detraction abound. In my view, people in the west are less religious because they're comfortable and distracted. The notion that westerners are too sophisticated for Christian faith is farcical IMO.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Why doesn't he punish unChrist-like Christians? They are spreading a hateful message.

that's a good question. Why doesn't he punish anybody? Why doesn't he get involved just a little?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christianity was probably never meant to be a mass religion in the first place. It functions more like a initiatory mystery religion, the more ancient it is in terms of tradition. Becoming a popular religion of the masses and institutionalized caused it to dump Jesus' purported teachings in the garbage (you really think Jesus blesses soldiers and weapons?!). Most people around the world who are Christian, if they didn't convert to it by choice, were pretty much forced into it by family or cultural tradition and it spread throughout the world by imperialism and colonialism, if not outright genocide. So maybe this is a chance for Christianity to revive itself, become more about true belief and practice, and not mere social convention.

I'd rather just see it die out. There is so much baggage, violent content, immoral practices, and so many other things we find abhorrent in today's times that really it is best to just leave Christianity in the past, where it belongs, and replace it with something that's evolved with 2000 years of philosophical thought and considerations.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

On the contrary. Christianity is declining where unprecedented wealth, comfort and detraction abound. In my view, people in the west are less religious because they're comfortable and distracted. The notion that westerners are too sophisticated for Christian faith is farcical IMO.

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Clara Tea]

According to a recent (2019) Pew poll. Pew is one of the most respected polls in America so there's no reason to doubt their finds. Other findings:

* 65% of American adults identified as Christians, DOWN 12% from 2009

* atheist, agnostic or “nones" now stands at 26%, UP from 17% in 2009.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

Extrapolating outward at 12% per decade that means that in 2070 only 5% of Americans will identify as Protestant.

Truthfully, I was shocked by these statistics. And I have mentioned them to a number of Christians on this board. They seem to be glib on the matter, not really caring from all appearances that their faith is dying on the vine. One member went so far as to question the reliability of any poll that showed Christianity in a negative light. They asked question like, "What specific questions were asked, how did the pollsters ask the question, were they broad or specific in their questions, what kinds of question did they ask, how broad was the sampling, and on and on....a veritable feast of red herring to distract from the very simple finding that Christianity is on the way out in America, following Europe's even more stark downward trend.

So I have to ask a few direct questions:

Why is God allowing his faith to bleed to death? Why doesn't God intervene in some miraculous way to stop the hemorrhaging of Christians away from Jesus?

One mighty visible miracle from God could stop people from leaving Christianity. All God has to do is speak up audibly like he did on Mt. Sinai. If he did it then he can do it again.

Why Doesn't God Intervene?????

Christians tied their religion to politics. They thought they were ending abortion (still have it). They thought they were voting for religion in school (didn't get it--can't, its illegal). They thought they were voting for morality (didn't get it). Instead, they got politically motivated lawyers rewriting environmental reports leading to more Global Warming so their oil cronies could get more mammon. They got wars and torture camps with lies hiding their skullduggery from the voters. They got outsourced factories to exploit Chinese slave kids who compete with US workers at 25 cents per day. Then they collapsed the economy in 2008 (notice Christians abandoned their faith in 2009), due to outsourcing factories and over-lending to homeowners. They did everything they could to stimulate the economy (dropped interest rates), but they had to increase the national debt, and still companies were going out of business.

By tying their religion to politics, then ignoring God, and favoring mammon (greed), everything collapsed, even their devotion to God. Greed damaged the relationship that Christians had with God, and they left the church.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why is God allowing his faith to bleed to death? Why doesn't God intervene in some miraculous way to stop the hemorrhaging of Christians away from Jesus?

Why Doesn't God Intervene?????

Okay, I am answering as if I was a Christian.
Was it not you who posted that 79% of American Christians believe that Jesus is going to return to earth?
So if Jesus returned wouldn't that be God's way of intervening to stop the hemorrhaging and restore Christianity?

 

[George-ananda]

I wish someone would do a study on how the early church converted Jesus' death for likely sedition into an atonement death. I've already mentioned that what I read was Jesus' death wasn't considered atonement until the Jews lost their temple in 70 CE. When they could no longer sacrifice animals for atonement they seized on Jesus as a permanent one-time sacrifice for all men for expediency's sake. this way, by promoting this idea the Jews (who were the first Christians) didn't have to worry about having to make a yearly animal sacrifice on an altar that no longer existed. The temple destruction made possible Jesus' salvation. Without the destruction of the temple the idea of Jesus' death as salvation might never have occurred.

Good points. Going to 2021, we need to take our perspective. Jesus is a rightly venerated figure but not exclusive in importance.

 

[Trailblazer]

They used to be the majority by a large margin.

Yes indeed. When I was born in the 1950s, 95% of the population of the United Stated identified themselves as Christians. My parents left Christianity before I was born so they were part of the 5%.

 

[Trailblazer]

On the contrary. Christianity is declining where unprecedented wealth, comfort and detraction abound. In my view, people in the west are less religious because they're comfortable and distracted.

I agree that people in the west are less religious because they're comfortable and distracted, but I do not believe that is why Christianity is declining. I think that Christianity is declining because it is no longer believable by increasing numbers of people.

 

[Trailblazer]

that's a good question. Why doesn't he punish anybody? Why doesn't he get involved just a little?

That punishment and involvement comes later, after people die.

 

[Batya]

Well, if he cares so much then why in the hell doesn't he do something to stop it!!!!!!!!

Do you want him to take away your free choice?? Do you want to be a robot who follows God because you're programmed to do that? I don't think so. The very fact that we are seeing this happen today should be a wake up call, things are going the way the bible said they would.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Christians tied their religion to politics. They thought they were ending abortion (still have it). They thought they were voting for religion in school (didn't get it--can't, its illegal). They thought they were voting for morality (didn't get it). Instead, they got politically motivated lawyers rewriting environmental reports leading to more Global Warming so their oil cronies could get more mammon. They got wars and torture camps with lies hiding their skullduggery from the voters. They got outsourced factories to exploit Chinese slave kids who compete with US workers at 25 cents per day. Then they collapsed the economy in 2008 (notice Christians abandoned their faith in 2009), due to outsourcing factories and over-lending to homeowners. They did everything they could to stimulate the economy (dropped interest rates), but they had to increase the national debt, and still companies were going out of business.

By tying their religion to politics, then ignoring God, and favoring mammon (greed), everything collapsed, even their devotion to God. Greed damaged the relationship that Christians had with God, and they left the church.

I think mammon has been a part of Christianity since Constantine in 324 CE.

 

[Trailblazer]

But my broader question is not why it's happening (which is the Internet/education) but why God is not doing anything to stop it.

Doesn't God care?

As I already told you on another thread, God is not doing anything to stop people from dropping out of Christianity because (a) God does not intervene in human free will decisions, and (b) God has no interest in keeping Christianity going, so why would God care about letting it die? It is not as if Christianity is the only religion that God ever revealed. Why would God want to see an older religion keep going when He has revealed two newer religions since the days of Jesus, Islam and the Baha'i Faith?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Okay, I am answering as if I was a Christian.
Was it not you who posted that 79% of American Christians believe that Jesus is going to return to earth?
So if Jesus returned wouldn't that be God's way of intervening to stop the hemorrhaging and restore Christianity?

lol, good one. Let me answer as a former Christian who is extremely knowledgeable about rapture/tribulation/2nd coming lore. Christians believe that just as the universe was created in 6 days and god rested on the 7th day, so god has allotted 6000 years from Adam to his return and then the Millennium will be the 7th day of a thousand years of rest. Silly, I know but that's what they believe because of kooks like Hal Lindsay and Grant Jeffrey.

So Jesus' 2nd coming has to do more with God putting a stop to the antichrist's shenanigans and the end of this 6000 year probation of man on earth theory than a falling away of Christians. This antichrist nonsense is fairy tale stuff. The hemorrhaging of Christians is reality.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Do you want him to take away your free choice?? Do you want to be a robot who follows God because you're programmed to do that? I don't think so. The very fact that we are seeing this happen today should be a wake up call, things are going the way the bible said they would.

If it saves my soul, sure. What's the sacrifice of a little free will for eternal happiness, right?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

As I already told you on another thread, God is not doing anything to stop people from dropping out of Christianity because (a) God does not intervene in human free will decisions, and (b) God has no interest in keeping Christianity going, so why would God care about letting it die? It is not as if Christianity is the only religion that God ever revealed. Why would God want to see an older religion keep going when He has revealed two newer religions since the days of Jesus, Islam and the Baha'i Faith?

From a Christian perspective Jesus is the only way. You know, my agreeing or disagreeing has nothing to do with how they perceive salvation.

 

[Trailblazer]

If it saves my soul, sure. What's the sacrifice of a little free will for eternal happiness, right?

I am inclined to agree on a purely logical basis, but that eternal happiness no longer comes by way of Christian beliefs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Christians tied their religion to politics. They thought they were ending abortion (still have it). They thought they were voting for religion in school (didn't get it--can't, its illegal). They thought they were voting for morality (didn't get it). Instead, they got politically motivated lawyers rewriting environmental reports leading to more Global Warming so their oil cronies could get more mammon. They got wars and torture camps with lies hiding their skullduggery from the voters. They got outsourced factories to exploit Chinese slave kids who compete with US workers at 25 cents per day. Then they collapsed the economy in 2008 (notice Christians abandoned their faith in 2009), due to outsourcing factories and over-lending to homeowners. They did everything they could to stimulate the economy (dropped interest rates), but they had to increase the national debt, and still companies were going out of business.

By tying their religion to politics, then ignoring God, and favoring mammon (greed), everything collapsed, even their devotion to God. Greed damaged the relationship that Christians had with God, and they left the church.

That's been going on for many centuries. Basically since Christianity was made into an organized religion, which then and there put it at as the official Roman religion.
The difference today is we know so much of the Bible is impossible to have had happened and impossible to believe. We have also advanced morality and ethics since then, and we know the Bible is just straight up wrong and immoral in many examples throughout its entirety. We know the Bible was written long ago, before they had any idea of how unsanitary blood, and we are leaving it behind because we are more sophisticated than believing in purity/healing rituals that involve having pigeon's blood slung about. We also tend to mind less or think nothing of it if a woman is in charge and independent, so Paul's words are like sandpaper to our modern ear drums.

 

[Batya]

If it saves my soul, sure. What's the sacrifice of a little free will for eternal happiness, right?

True belief has never been the easy way out. In some ways I can see what you're saying, but then it would not be true love, and even if that were the case (that we served him under compulsion in order to be assured of eternal happiness) , there would probably still be people who resented it.
He has done something about this, just many people are unwilling to accept it. But...I don't want this to derail your thread, I know we have different views about all this.

 

[Trailblazer]

We know the Bible was written long ago, before they had any idea of.........

The hundred-million dollar question is why any rational person would believe that a Holy Book that old still pertains to humans that are living on earth today, especially given several new Holy Books have been revealed since that time.

The two things that can explain that are the fact that most Christians unquestionably believe what they were taught as children and most Christians act on emotions rather than reason. If they bothered to stop and think logically, they would realize that when Jesus said He was the Only Way that only pertained to a certain period of time, not forever. That is like a parent telling a small child that they can only ride a tricycle but that does not mean they have to continue to ride a tricycle when they are 10 years old! And after they are an adult they can ride a motorcycle or drive a car.

But Christians don't get it because they have been taught that Jesus is the Only Way for all time and they want Jesus to be the Only Way because they are emotionally attached to the man Jesus. So even though it can easily be proven using their own Bible that Jesus is never coming back to earth, they will find a way to deny it and keep waiting for Jesus.