Just Accidental?

[savagewind]

Peppered Moth
Itallian Wall Lizards
Cane Toads
Nestor notabilis
Blue Moon Butterfly
Hoatzin

Are you guys just acting dumb? A Cane toad is a toad. A Blue Moon Butterfly is a Butterfly. I don't know what those other things are. I thought maybe you were getting lucky and someone had discovered a Nestor Notabilis was born of a Cane Toad, but sorry, it's a bird born of another BIRD.

 

[McBell]

Yes I do have a claim...as substantiated as the one science promotes.
We do not have dibs on "wishful thinking" as science has its own fair share of that. And as for "logical fallacies", the fallasy part is a matter of opinion, but at least ours are "logical" as opposed to the completely illogical claims made for evolution.
Are you related to a banana or a fruit fly Mestemia? Is T Rex a cousin to a chicken?

We have nothing cast in stone either, apart from the basic foundations of our belief in the Creator. We are always reevaluating and adjusting our views on things. Its what I like about being a JW. If we make a mistake, we correct it.


That is again, a matter of opinion. Sometimes the actual strawmen look like the real McCoy.

They need a brain and their companions need a heart! Some of us just want to go home because we are sick of living in a world where science has created so many problems that it cannot solve.

I don't think the dishonesty is intentional, but more to the fact that "suggestion" has power, and when it is widely accepted because of who suggests it, it gains momentum and you have a great body of supporters on board and a lot of ego stroking that makes men feel like gods. There is power, accolades and money motivating science and I believe that it has gone to their heads.

But that is just my opinion.

Bold empty claims do not support bold empty claims.
Until such time as you can present some actual dishonesty by science, you are merely attacking strawmen and making bold empty claims.

I understand you are not interested in anything outside your dogma.
But the least you can do is actually present what you claim you are presenting.

 

[savagewind]

What we want is a (I'm going to make it easy) a snake-like thing born of a lizard and then, the snake reproducing another snake.

 

[McBell]

Are you guys just acting dumb? A Cane toad is a toad. A Blue Moon Butterfly is a Butterfly. I don't know what those other things are. I thought maybe you were getting lucky and someone had discovered a Nestor Notabilis was born of a Cane Toad, but sorry, it's a bird born of another BIRD.

I presented examples.
you are free to believe whatever you like about them.

 

[savagewind]

I presented examples.
you are free to believe whatever you like about them.

Do you really not understand that a new kind of bird is no proof?
Look at what radiation does to people. Are babies born of women who have radiation poison proof of evolution?

 

[savagewind]

you are free to believe whatever you like about them.

Is @Deeje getting under your skin?

 

[McBell]

Do you really not understand that a new kind of bird is no proof?
Look at what radiation does to people. Are babies born of women who have radiation poison proof of evolution?

again, I presented you with examples of evolution in action.
It is on you to accept or deny them.
It matters not to me either way.

 

[McBell]

Is @Deeje getting under your skin?

Nope.
She is just like my mother and grandmother.
One track mind.
It matters not how much truth, fact, reason, logic, etc presented to them, they will never alter their course.
I have learned to have fun with them.

 

[savagewind]

again, I presented you with examples of evolution in action.
It is on you to accept or deny them.
It matters not to me either way.

But, why do you insist that we are denying micro evolution? Different kinds of birds are due to MICRO evolution! Macro evolution means the change into NEW things.

 

[McBell]

But, why do you insist that we are denying micro evolution? Different kinds of birds are due to MICRO evolution! Macro evolution means the change into NEW things.

You seem to have me confused with someone else.

I have not used either of those false prefixes.

 

[savagewind]

You seem to have me confused with someone else.

I have not used either of those false prefixes.

I get it. We are fighting about words. I don't want to do that.
Can I use class? Have there been any examples of one class of animal giving birth to a new class of animal?

 

[McBell]

I get it. We are fighting about words. I don't want to do that.
Can I use class? Have there been any examples of one class of animal giving birth to a new class of animal?

I am done playing pigeon chess.
Fly on home now and claim your empty "victory" for all you have done here is reveal you are not interested in honest discourse.

 

[Deeje]

I am done playing pigeon chess.
Fly on home now and claim your empty "victory" for all you have done here is reveal you are not interested in honest discourse.

Oh c'mon Mestemia...you have no answers, just admit it. You're just hacking yourself to pieces here....

 

[ArtieE]

Are you guys just acting dumb? A Cane toad is a toad. A Blue Moon Butterfly is a Butterfly. I don't know what those other things are. I thought maybe you were getting lucky and someone had discovered a Nestor Notabilis was born of a Cane Toad, but sorry, it's a bird born of another BIRD.

There are over 10 000 species of birds. So what you are saying is that your god created one male and one female generic bird and this bird microevolved into all the different species of birds we have today like the bee hummingbird and the ostrich?

 

[Deeje]

There are over 10 000 species of birds. So what you are saying is that your god created one male and one female generic bird and this bird microevolved into all the different species of birds we have today like the bee hummingbird and the ostrich?

According to Genesis 1: 20-23:
"Then God said: “Let the waters swarm with living creatures, and let flying creatures fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God created the great sea creatures and all living creatures that move and swarm in the waters according to their kinds and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 With that God blessed them, saying: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the waters of the sea, and let the flying creatures become many in the earth.” 23 And there was evening and there was morning, a fifth day."

Winged creatures were created on the 5th day. It is an orderly process, obviously not taking place in the space of a single 24 hour day, but in a creative epoch where the Creator exercised his creativity in many ways. It says that God created "every kind of winged creature" so we can gather from that, that he crafted his birds, bats and flying insects in the same manner as he crafted all his other creatures. Male and female he would have made so that his mandate to fill the earth could be achieved. Why is that so hard for you to understand? The micro-evolution only came as a result of creatures finding themselves in a changed environment. Many creatures would have to adapt to changed climatic and feeding conditions as conditions on earth changed in various ways. You seem to ignore the fact that micro-evolution does not alter "kinds" even though it may alter the appearance of species within a "kind" so that they are no longer attracted to them for reproduction. Its not rocket science surely?

 

[ArtieE]

Winged creatures were created on the 5th day. It is an orderly process, obviously not taking place in the space of a single 24 hour day, but in a creative epoch where the Creator exercised his creativity in many ways. It says that God created "every kind of winged creature" so we can gather from that, that he crafted his birds, bats and flying insects in the same manner as he crafted all his other creatures. Male and female he would have made so that his mandate to fill the earth could be achieved. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Yes but did he personally create some flying male and female things that later evolved into birds, bats and flying insects or did he personally create a male and female generic bird, bat and flying insect that later evolved into different bird, bat and flying insect species or did he create each species separately?

 

[Deeje]

Yes but did he personally create some flying male and female things that later evolved into birds, bats and flying insects or did he personally create a male and female generic bird, bat and flying insect that later evolved into different bird, bat and flying insect species or did he create each species separately?

Read Genesis.....it say God created all of "every winged and flying creature" according to their kind. Micro-evolution doesn't change a kind, but leads to small variations within that family of creatures. Think Galapagos.....the finches were distinctly still finches and the iguanas were still recognizable as iguanas.....they didn't change into another species of bird or lizard......do you get it yet?

 

[ArtieE]

do you get it yet?

Can't you just answer my post so I can know what it is I'm supposed to get?

 

[Deeje]

Can't you just answer my post so I can know what it is I'm supposed to get?

Geeze Artie, do I actually have to dumb it down any further? God made living things by directly creating all of his creatures. He made a male and female of everything so that his mandate to "fill the earth" with their kind could be carried out. He never used micro-evolution in the creative process because he didn't need to. OK? Micro-evolution is adaptation...small changes, not major ones, that took place later.

 

[ArtieE]

Geeze Artie, do I actually have to dumb it down any further? [emoji14] God made living things by directly creating all of his creatures. He made a male and female of everything so that his mandate to "fill the earth" with their kind could be carried out. He never used micro-evolution in the creative process because he didn't need to. OK? Micro-evolution is adaptation...small changes, not major ones, that took place later.

Why can't you just answer my specific question? Did God make a generic bird that later evolved into bee hummingbirds and ostriches or did he make for example a generic hummingbird that later evolved into all the different hummingbird species or did he make each separate hummingbird species?