Justice

[Meow Mix]

This isn't explicitely about religion, though to my understanding most religions touch on the subject of justice at some point -- so I decided to post it here.

What is justice? Is it a virtue?

Is justice when someone "gets what's coming to them?" Isn't that just revenge?

Is justice when we remove someone that's harmful from society? This is when it gets a little less clear cut. Removing a dangerous person from society is simply prudent -- is it "justice" to be happy about it though? That just seems like revenge to me. When a family says "justice was done" they usually mean "yeah, we got 'em back for what they did for us." Is that right?

It seems to me that justice needs to be better defined. I don't find revenge to be morally satisfying. I do agree with removing people from society but I don't agree with finding joy in their misery, even if their misery is in response to something they've done wrong.

I guess I can tie this in to religion: is it justice for God to allow a sinner burn in hell? How is that distinct from revenge? Why is that a virtue, a positive thing?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Justice is a human construct, and ever changing. And most of the time justice is not done.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I think Justice has something to do with what is justified. Is it justified to put a murderer in prison? Most modern societies would agree. I think there is a subtle difference between justice and revenge.

 

[outhouse]

. I don't find revenge to be morally satisfying.

I think more proven criminals need to be put to death instead of life or dumb sentences like 200-300 years givin to a 60 year old.

No real punishment is why crime rates are so high

When a family says "justice was done" they usually mean "yeah, we got 'em back for what they did for us." Is that right?

sadly, in some cases it is right. we all love to see someone get what they have coming who has wronged us.

I guess I can tie this in to religion: is it justice for God to allow a sinner burn in hell? How is that distinct from revenge? Why is that a virtue, a positive thing?

I find this mythical punishement to be written for man of another time. I do not take it serious and believe its %100 fiction. Thus I dont get to deep in after thought but, its not justice at all. Its ancient mans cruel punishement to force belief through fear.

 

[Songbird]

I describe justice as acting fairly, and not as a purely after-the-fact action. It's very context-specific, but guided by general principles.

I don't agree with finding joy in the punishment or misery of others either, but I don't see anything wrong with a sense of outrage or injustice being alleviated when punishment occurs - which is different from justice.

 

[Pegg]

Hi Meowmix,

I think living by justice is a virtue, but its also something external and changing, so its not necessarily an internal part of our nature. To me, justice is a way to administer regulations and rules designed to benefit the well being of all. When we live by justice, we make an effort to ensure we abide by those rules. When we do, we all benefit.

i certainly dont see revenge as a justice...that is more a way to 'enforce' justice on someone by making them suffer the same consequences in an attempt to right the wrong. But true justice cannot really occur in our world because if your child is murdered, the murderer will go to jail, but you will not get your child back. So for some crimes, there is no way to right the wrong.

 

[Skwim]

To me, justice is balancing the equation. A wrong is to be balanced by a consequent right. Of course this entails working out the severity of the wrong and finding the appropriate action that will redress the wrong with no more or no less severity than the wrong itself. Let the punishment fit the crime, as it were.

Is justice a virtue? Not particularly, although it can certainly be beneficial.

Justice is often motivated by nothing more than revenge. Is this good? Well, if nothing else it certainly gives one a sense of balancing the books, and often serves as a warning to those who may think about doing the same. So, even though revenge may not seem like a laudable act, in some cases I can see a definite benefit from it.

As for finding joy in revenge, this isn't something we choose to do, but a happenstance of our character. So what will be, will be.

 

[Penumbra]

I view justice simply as being equitable, and I view this type of behavior as virtuous. On a broader scale, I view justice as defining and producing rules and enforcement to keep society at least reasonably equitable.

I don't find revenge to be virtuous, even the types that masquerade as justice as you describe.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

In a way it can be revenge.

 

[Mister Emu]

Justice isn't only about wrongs being righted, but also about "rights" being rewarded... and a guide for action in and of itself.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why exactly is revenge necessarily a bad thing? I think revenge and justice do overlap and are often the same (although not all justice is revenge and not all revenge is justified). Undue losses and damages should be repaid.

 

[Skwim]

Why exactly is revenge necessarily a bad thing? I think revenge and justice do overlap and are often the same (although not all justice is revenge and not all revenge is justified). Undue losses and damages should be repaid.

I think that the drawback of revenge is that it brings satisfaction from the suffering of others. On a very basic level this strikes me as something that shouldn't be encouraged or indulged. That said, the act does send a beneficial message, which I mentioned earlier.

 

[Penumbra]

Why exactly is revenge necessarily a bad thing?

Do you believe in free will?

I think revenge and justice do overlap and are often the same (although not all justice is revenge and not all revenge is justified). Undue losses and damages should be repaid.

I think undue losses and damages should be repaid as well, if possible. Regulating fairness implies that wrongs (as defined by that culture), when possible, are righted. In addition, preventative measures are taken, such as keeping dangerous people away from others, or in some cultures, or by using punishment as a deterrent.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Do you believe in free will?

I see where you are getting at. Though free will does not mean there will not be punishment for mistakes.

I think undue losses and damages should be repaid as well, if possible. Regulating fairness implies that wrongs (as defined by that culture), when possible, are righted. In addition, preventative measures are taken, such as keeping dangerous people away from others, or in some cultures, or by using punishment as a deterrent.

But wouldn't that be kinda the same as revenge?

Revenge doesn't have to be the exact thing back. Isn't it just punishment for punishment?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Why exactly is revenge necessarily a bad thing? I think revenge and justice do overlap and are often the same (although not all justice is revenge and not all revenge is justified). Undue losses and damages should be repaid.

I agree 100% Furballs for you!

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I think that the drawback of revenge is that it brings satisfaction from the suffering of others. On a very basic level this strikes me as something that shouldn't be encouraged or indulged. That said, the act does send a beneficial message, which I mentioned earlier.

If someone punches another, then the another punches the someone, there wouldn't be a need for anymore punches, for revenge has taken its course.

If they keep on punching, ridiculously yet possibly, I see your point is true, and it's best to ignore it if it is not too big of a deal for you, or it will get worse.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Justice is the application of honesty and fairness. The emotional reaction of revenge may or may not coincide with the application of justice. I think many people feel that the feeling of revenge detracts from justice, but they are actually two independent variables. The problem comes in when people mistake revenge as justice, when it isn't.

 

[Valjean]

"Justice," in common parlance, usually means vengeance.

Try this: for the next few weeks watch some crime and police dramas: CSI, Forensic Files, Bluebloods, &c. Whenever you hear "justice" in the dialogue, try substituting "revenge." It usually fits perfectly.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

"Justice," in common parlance, usually means vengeance.

Try this: for the next few weeks watch some crime and police dramas: CSI, Forensic Files, Bluebloods, &c. Whenever you hear "justice" in the dialogue, try substituting "revenge." It usually fits perfectly.

Of course, fictional portrayals of justice are designed to appeal to people's sense of revenge and vengeance. Therein lies the drama and the emotional impact.

 

[Songbird]

Of course, fictional portrayals of justice are designed to appeal to people's sense of revenge and vengeance. Therein lies the drama and the emotional impact.

Good points, but you really should sleep at night.