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Justify creationism over evolutionism

bluZero

Active Member
Translation:

Originally Posted by blu
You have to learn to keep the lies out of science and then we can discuss it.
Translation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by What blu really meant
Please hide all that physical evidence that contradicts the bible so I can wallow in my own self ignorance.

I told you before, the bible is not a science or history book. It is of the Moral laws of God, and a book of the spirituality of Jesus' salvation plan. So how can an creation contradict its creator?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
What were the ways of your first nations? As for their beliefs I would assume they took them literally but your the expert.
wow... that'll take a while to explain!
And I'm not expert... I learn as I go and have time to talk to elders.

And stories were meant to illustrate the way people were supposed to behave or not behave...or for a good laugh... we don't literally think that the reason dogs sniff each others butts is because they got their sphincters mixed up in a tragic accident. ;)

wa:do
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Well I don't know what that's in reference to,(the dog part) but I'm not really convinced that Native American religions didn't have creation stories that were meant to be taken literally. I mean they did believe in a creator didn't they?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Yeah we believe in Creator... and many may take the stories literally... I don't happen to and neither do most people I've met.

Most creation stories center on how we are related to all the other animals anyway... so it's not much of a stretch to go from calling wolves and deer your elder brothers to calling them your evolutionary cousins. :cool:

wa:do
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Well brothers in the sense of having the same father, spiritual father that is. Not a common ancestor. In most creation stories each animal is a separate creation. Or at least man is a separation creation from the other animals.
 

allanpopa

Member
From the small impression I got from reading the last few posts, it seems that some Christians are under the impression that Genesis is literally factually historical (if not "inerrant"). It also seems to me that some of the non-Christians are seeing "Creationism" or the fundamentalist interpretation of Genesis to be the Christian theory.

The problem with this is that it's not. The Nicean Creed says, "We believe in one God the Father, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth" not, "We believe in one God the Father, Creator of the Heavens and the earth in 7 days, 6000 years ago". Contemporary intelligent Christians, the ones that actually get published in scholarly journals and philosophical journals, take a very different interpretation of Genesis, they see it as myth, and "myth" in a technical sense of a story written in order to convey a particular identity to a particular people. In fact, my favourite interpretation is that Genesis 1 describes the creation of the Jewish Temple and the Jews saw their Temple as the universe in microchasm. This interpretation is one of my very good friends, a Biblical scholar, Dr Michael Carden. As such, the continuity between the identity myth of Genesis 1 with Christian high ecclesiology is very evident and the Eucharist can be interpreted as a ritual which heals the entire universe. I think this is very beautiful imagery.

Now, the reason why most intelligent Christians think that Genesis is mythological is because of the large amount of scientific evidence which simply cannot be interpreted any other way than the contemporary scientific theory of evolution. Also, because the mythological motifs are just so evident in the text itself, to interpret them otherwise would not take their intention or their reception seriously, (this for me is a very important reason); Wirkungsgeschichte is one of the most important hermeneutical methods which sheds the most light on the meanings of text.

Contemporary fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible are thus limited to possible meanings of only post-Darwinian, post-Enlightenment and post-Reformation times. Their meanings rests on contemporary idealizations of "historical accuracy", "logic and reason" and "science". These interpretations are riddled with Romantic neo-colonial imperialist ideologies, in that they attempt to express a truth or a meaning under which they can hold every culture and every person accountable; a truth and meaning which they attempt to argue everyone into; a truth and meaning which they see as anulling all other sorts of truth and meaning that exists in other religions, other cultures and other ways of life.

This is just the impression I got, I'm sure that most people here know that fundamentalist Christianity is itself a contemporary religio-political phenomenon and not an historical, traditional expression of Christian truth, myth and ritual.

Allan
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Oh really? Is that what the Nicene creed says about the Bible. Well guess what the Bible says about the Nicene creed. Nothing; because it's not important. But I bet the reason it didn't mention is because at that time there was no need to.
 

themadhair

Well-Known Member
In most creation stories each animal is a separate creation.
There was a time when I would have agreed with this, but after talking to people of varying beliefs I'm not so sure.

Apart from the Abrahamic traditions and some Hindu stories...I don't think most creation stories specify this to be honest.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Well hey, I'm not gonna argue with that till I know the facts. I going of the creation stories I've heard. But if your not more specific how am I supposed to learn and maintain my laziness? Oh that's not to you painted wolf, it's for the madhair.
 

themadhair

Well-Known Member
Well hey, I'm not gonna argue with that till I know the facts. I going of the creation stories I've heard. But if your not more specific how am I supposed to learn and maintain my laziness? Oh that's not to you painted wolf, it's for the madhair.
A few of the top of my head are:
Scientology which teaches humans came from clams and this explains why we cry when we hear the sea (I'm not kidding either although this is one of the high level teachings).
The Greek and Phoenician mythology don't specify animals created in forms and I believe the Hopi creation story implies a strong inter-relationship between the animals.

As far as creation stories go, the fundamentalist Abrahamic faiths are almost a rarity for taking their creation story is literal rather than metaphor.
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Okay, but I don't think Abrahamic religions are unique at all in taking creation stories literally. You don't think those tribes out in the jungles in Africa and South America don't think they had a literal creator? Like what about these stories- Creation/Migration/Origin Stories
actually I'll use the scientific method I'll assume I'm right that they do take it literally and then try and find a record of people saying they take it literally. Totally objective, well maybe not but who is?
http://www.indigenouspeople.net/legend.htm
 
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painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I see what you mean; humans turning into bears. It's not really a creation story like I was thinking it would be though; Like for the whole earth, but it definitely explains the origin of the bear.
well, it's not the whole story of creation... but you get the idea...
Creation stories come in all flavors, like any other story... In one Raven found seven humans in a clam shell and these were the first people... No saying where they came from before then.

wa:do
 

Sonic247

Well-Known Member
Well it's actually hard to find people talking about whether they take there societies creation story literally of figuratively. I guess it's an obscure subject, maybe th only way to know is to talk to people one on one.
Oh here is another creation story, they're easier to find.Creation Myths from the Philippines But look it this way when you read something that says it's a cultures creation story unless it says it's a metaphor don't you assume that people literally believe. After all what percentage of the world is atheist? Most people believe there was some sort of divine influence in the making of the world.
 
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