Justify creationism over evolutionism

[painted wolf]

Oh I'm not saying that we/I don't believe in a divine influence... I wouldn't be a theist otherwise.
But I'm not a creationist... I don't have a dogma that I insist is the one and only truth.

wa:do

 

[themadhair]

But look it this way when you read something that says it's a cultures creation story unless it says it's a metaphor don't you assume that people literally believe. After all what percentage of the world is atheist? Most people believe there was some sort of divine influence in the making of the world.

I’m confused. Assuming divine influence isn’t the same as accepting a creation story literally. Mostly creation stories are a means of teaching morals and/or wisdom. Look at how the catholic church treats genesis in this vein (admittedly after being dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century).

Take a look at the Aboriginal creation story. From the few folks of Aboriginal descent I’ve spoken to they don’t take it literally in any way whatsoever – but they do take it as a source of wisdom with the story emphasising the link between humans, animals and plants (it teaches that during the ‘dreamtime’ humans and animals could transform into one another).

 

[Sonic247]

I see, that's what I couldn't tell. Your Native American which is traditionally a very spiritual people, and I'm sure still are but on the other hand you are a biologist that defends evolution, and I'm not saying every one who believes evolution is an Athiest. But I think it's safe to say most Atheist are very zealous of evolution. So with all that I didn't really have any idea what you believed.

 

[Tristesse]

I see, that's what I couldn't tell. Your Native American which is traditionally a very spiritual people, and I'm sure still are but on the other hand you are a biologist that defends evolution, and I'm not saying every one who believes evolution is an Athiest. But I think it's safe to say most Atheist are very zealous of evolution. So with all that I didn't really have any idea what you believed.

I'm not sure what about evolution there is to be zealous about. It's a scientific theory just like gravity, but I'm sure you would never say anyone would be zealous about gravity. Evolution is settled science, it's not really up for debate in a broad sense, possibly certain aspects of it.

 

[Sonic247]

I’m confused. Assuming divine influence isn’t the same as accepting a creation story literally. Mostly creation stories are a means of teaching morals and/or wisdom. Look at how the catholic church treats genesis in this vein (admittedly after being dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century).

Take a look at the Aboriginal creation story. From the few folks of Aboriginal descent I’ve spoken to they don’t take it literally in any way whatsoever – but they do take it as a source of wisdom with the story emphasising the link between humans, animals and plants (it teaches that during the ‘dreamtime’ humans and animals could transform into one another).

Not necessarily but if they believe in a creation and have creation story it's not illogical to think people will believe it. So did you actually talk to these Aborigines in Australia, I guess it's a small people group, I always thought of them as exclusively living in Australia.

EDIT: Oh yeah the Catholic church, well that's definitely what I call selling out. No peer pressure for me I know what six days means.

 

[Sonic247]

I'm not sure what about evolution there is to be zealous about. It's a scientific theory just like gravity, but I'm sure you would never say anyone would be zealous about gravity. Evolution is settled science, it's not really up for debate in a broad sense, possibly certain aspects of it.

Just like Alchemy is better, it's something turning into something else but with similarities. I mean zealous as in they will fight it to the death, or at least to the pain, or maybe just to the annoyance.

 

[painted wolf]

One can be a biologist and spiritual at the same time. I find my work in biology actually makes me appreciate my spiritual ties to the world around me all the more.
I've never made my spirituality a secret...indeed I like to remind everyone that I'm a theist every once in a while.

wa:do

 

[Sonic247]

Oh yeah I know that. In fact I just got a Christian book called Scientist who believe. It's just a generalization. You might be an Atheist if.... etc. Generalizations aren't always bad, like if you work at WaWa and someone walks up with a knife you might think they're a robber. But that's why I just wanted to find out more.

 

[Tristesse]

Just like Alchemy is better, it's something turning into something else but with similarities. I mean zealous as in they will fight it to the death, or at least to the pain, or maybe just to the annoyance.

Well, if you mean they accept the reality of evolution, than ok. I'm not sure they would fight it to the death, it's a theory like many others that christians willingly except, but reject ones that don't align with there religious beliefs.

 

[Sonic247]

Well one things for sure; it's not like gravity. But honestly you are right even if I only knew the evolutionist's side of evolution I would still go with the Bible.

 

[Tristesse]

Well one things for sure; it's not like gravity. But honestly you are right even if I only knew the evolutionist's side of evolution I would still go with the Bible.

ok, but just so you know, it's not like gravity has more evidence than evolution. Thats not how it works at all.

 

[Sonic247]

Way more observations though. Actually I feel it all the time. I don't feel myself evolving. I guess you'll say it's because it's happening so slowly which would make sense if it was true, but not so, oh well for you. hahaha

 

[painted wolf]

It's only "not like gravity" because it involves human origins... and if there is one thing humans are obsessed with it is themselves.

wa:do

 

[Tristesse]

Way more observations though. Actually I feel it all the time. I don't feel myself evolving. I guess you'll say it's because it's happening so slowly which would make sense if it was true, but not so, oh well for you. hahaha

Well, I'm not sure what you mean. Evolution is a fact actually, change over time is a fact. Evolution is observable. So, I'm not sure where you are getting your "facts." One thing people seem to have trouble grasping are extraordinary periods of time.

 

[painted wolf]

That and the fact that individuals don't evolve.... populations do.

wa:do

 

[Sonic247]

Oh yeah your right for sure. I had a nice haircut and now it's scraggly again so it definatly changed. And Darwin actually saw those different birds beaks so that's pretty scientific. But you know that's not what I'm talking about when I say evolution. Actually evolution follows the same patterns you observe, the weather gets drier the birds beak changes, it gets dark; people go to sleep, the sun comes up they wake up the weather gets wet again and the beak changes back. See it goes up and down, but stays within it's boundries. The genes for long beaks and short beaks were both in the birds already. It's just a matter of which qualities get highlighted by naturaul selection.

 

[Sonic247]

That and the fact that individuals don't evolve.... populations do.

wa:do

Sure they do, it's just change over time. I can grow new cells with mutations.

 

[allanpopa]

Oh really? Is that what the Nicene creed says about the Bible. Well guess what the Bible says about the Nicene creed. Nothing; because it's not important. But I bet the reason it didn't mention is because at that time there was no need to.

The Bible doesn't say anything about the Nicene Creed because the books of the Bible were written before the Nicene Creed. The Christian faith is shaped by the Christian acclamations of faith, Scripture, interpretations of Scripture, interpretations of Scripture in light of acclamations of faith, and on a side note, heresiology was a huge motif in developing Christianity; it was easier to define themselves against that which they were not than to create a concrete identity. Scripture however, both was informed and informed the shape of early Christian self identity. However, I must say that the self identity itself is concretified in the Christian acclamations of faith which if one cannot accept or does not see their identity within then they are simply not Christians.

If you don't like the Church councels then you have no business liking one of the Church canons of Scripture. If that's harsh, it's because it's meant to be. Christian faith is a tradition, a sacrament and a life. Filled with history, a history which as Christians we must see a continuity otherwise we cannot call ourselves apostolic in any sense.

Fundamentalist Christian faith attempts to do away with the Christian faith that existed for the past 2000 years and attempts to recreate the faith of the early first century movement. However, fundamentalist faith exists within the growing phenomenon of historical Christianity as a reaction to it (to the liturgy, rituals and faith). The literalist interpretations of Scripture are not in continuity with historical Christianity and are therefore outside of what is distinctly Christian identity.

Now, I'm a religious pluralist, so I have absolutely nothing against people who do not share my religion. So in no way am I saying this in a derogatory way, it's simply how I interpret the phenomenon of fundamentalism within the history of ideas.

Allan

 

[painted wolf]

but that isn't evolving... evolution is change in allele frequencies over time. You can't have that without multiple generations.

An individual can change... but unless that is passed down to future generations then it doesn't matter.

wa:do

ps... those new cells with mutations... they're called cancer.

 

[Tristesse]

Oh yeah your right for sure. I had a nice haircut and now it's scraggly again so it definatly changed. And Darwin actually saw those different birds beaks so that's pretty scientific. But you know that's not what I'm talking about when I say evolution. Actually evolution follows the same patterns you observe, the weather gets drier the birds beak changes, it gets dark; people go to sleep, the sun comes up they wake up the weather gets wet again and the beak changes back. See it goes up and down, but stays within it's boundries. The genes for long beaks and short beaks were both in the birds already. It's just a matter of which qualities get highlighted by naturaul selection.

Oh my god, what are you talking about? do you know anything about the theory of evolution? I wasn't referring to your hair cut, or bird beaks. There are a lot of misconceptions about evolution.