Justify your belief???

[HonestJoe]

First of all the OP isn't about me at all, that I mention two members comes from being in discussion with them, they claim believers Must prove and justify their beliefs,

Again, this answer has been given multiple times but you appear to keep ignoring it.

Nobody must defend their beliefs but if anyone presents their beliefs (regardless of what they're based on) as a basis for any kind of proposed policy or action, they will likely be asked to support the basis for that proposal. They remain free to answer those questions in any way they want to or ignore them entirely, but if they can't provide reasoning beyond belief or faith, they can't realistically expect anyone to accept their proposals.

If your beliefs are entirely personal, as you suggested previously, I don't see how they'd come up in any of these discussions in the first place. Why would you even need to tell anyone here about them?

 

[Viker]

Why do religious people have to justify their personal religious and spiritual belief?

We don't have to. Many of us feel the need to either because we feel under pressure to do so or coming from a desire to do it. Personally, no one has any authority to compel me or put me under a spotlight.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Again, this answer has been given multiple times but you appear to keep ignoring it.

Nobody must defend their beliefs but if anyone presents their beliefs (regardless of what they're based on) as a basis for any kind of proposed policy or action, they will likely be asked to support the basis for that proposal. They remain free to answer those questions in any way they want to or ignore them entirely, but if they can't provide reasoning beyond belief or faith, they can't realistically expect anyone to accept their proposals.

If your beliefs are entirely personal, as you suggested previously, I don't see how they'd come up in any of these discussions in the first place. Why would you even need to tell anyone here about them?

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

It depends upon the subject that they are debating. And it is because those are the tactics that many theist use to avoiding questions that they need to answer for that particular debate.

For example if a theist says "My church says 2 + 2 = 6 and I have to believe that". We would say fine, Go ahead and believe that. The IRS may come knocking some day, but you can believe what you want. But if the theist then says "And we need to teach this in schools". Then they have just crossed the line. Now they are affecting others and they would need to justify that belief.

Does that clarify matters at all? It is when a theist wants to force his beliefs upon others that one has to be able to justify them.

 

[HonestJoe]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

Beats me. Maybe the same kind of reasons some theists keep coming with the same assertions. The internet is full of strange people, and that is far from exclusive to atheists, theists or religious discussions in general.

If anyone dislikes the way another poster responds to them, they can simply not respond or use the "ignore" function. Nobody is forced to respond to anything, though if you make any kind of statement in a post (especially if you're starting the thread), you can't really expect to be taken seriously if you don't address any questions or challenges.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It depends upon the subject that they are debating. And it is because those are the tactics that many theist use to avoiding questions that they need to answer for that particular debate.

For example if a theist says "My church says 2 + 2 = 6 and I have to believe that". We would say fine, Go ahead and believe that. The IRS may come knocking some day, but you can believe what you want. But if the theist then says "And we need to teach this in schools". Then they have just crossed the line. Now they are affecting others and they would need to justify that belief.

Does that clarify matters at all? It is when a theist wants to force his beliefs upon others that one has to be able to justify them.

But atheists aren't in need of being in a religious forum to discuss if they can't handle that religious people speak about their beliefs. Isn't that what religious forums are for?

Share our religious and spiritual belief.
Not to answer pushy people

 

[Trailblazer]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

FYI, @HonestJoe never engages in this kind of behavior. He is a very respectful and fair person.

 

[stevecanuck]

Why do religious people have to justify their personal religious and spiritual belief?

They don't. But, if they come to a site like this it usually means they're looking for a debate/discussion about their beliefs and/or the beliefs of others.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Beats me. Maybe the same kind of reasons some theists keep coming with the same assertions. The internet is full of strange people, and that is far from exclusive to atheists, theists or religious discussions in general.

If anyone dislikes the way another poster responds to them, they can simply not respond or use the "ignore" function. Nobody is forced to respond to anything, though if you make any kind of statement in a post (especially if you're starting the thread), you can't really expect to be taken seriously if you don't address any questions or challenges.

The discussion isn't about what the theist should do...it is about what certain member pushing for answers they know they won't get answerd

 

[Spirit of Light]

They don't. But, if they come to a site like this it usually means they're looking for a debate/discussion about their beliefs and/or the beliefs of others.

With other religions or spiritual people yes

 

[Spirit of Light]

FYI, @HonestJoe never engages in this kind of behavior. He is a very respectful and fair person.

Yes I know, @Trailblazer you know who I mean in the OP

 

[Trailblazer]

Beats me. Maybe the same kind of reasons some theists keep coming with the same assertions. The internet is full of strange people, and that is far from exclusive to atheists, theists or religious discussions in general.

If anyone dislikes the way another poster responds to them, they can simply not respond or use the "ignore" function. Nobody is forced to respond to anything, though if you make any kind of statement in a post (especially if you're starting the thread), you can't really expect to be taken seriously if you don't address any questions or challenges.

Fancy meeting you here but it is always nice to see you.
I still plan to answer your post on the other thread but I have been weighed down by my husband's health condition and the constant care he requires.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes I know, @Trailblazer you know who I mean in the OP

I sure do.

 

[osgart]

Fancy meeting you here but it is always nice to see you.
I still plan to answer your post on the other thread but I have been weighed down by my husband's health condition and the constant care he requires.

Hope all goes well for you and your husband Trailblazer!!

Btw I still qualify myself as religious, though I'm atheist.

 

[Subduction Zone]

But atheists aren't in need of being in a religious forum to discuss if they can't handle that religious people speak about their beliefs. Isn't that what religious forums are for?

Share our religious and spiritual belief.
Not to answer pushy people

The "pushy people" tend to be the theists. Once again, it is when theists try to put their God where he does not belong that theists take on a burden of proof.

If you want to believe in a magical farting unicorn have at it. I don't care. If you want it taught in school then you have to support your claims. How is trying to keep some people from harming others "pushy"?

And atheists are here is because a lack of belief still says something about religions.

 

[Quagmire]

1. ***Thread Moved to Religious Debates***​

 

[osgart]

If people want a formal debate I don't think this is the choicest place on the internet. I mean I haven't come across people defining terms and carefully studying the topic beforehand. Religious people are usually looking for faith talk, and more insights from other religious people to help them grow in their own faith. They come here and find themselves in the crosshairs of anti theists just looking for a juicy target.

I don't think religion and science talkers are going to be doing anything but talking past each other. Religion falls under philosophical argument if people want to debate that. I think a lot of science talkers end up doing philosophy and calling it science.

Where can you get an environment where diverse people can speak without debate, and just stick to explaining their reasons for how they see things instead of challenging claims all the time.

People may not know how to converse with fairness and respect of persons, while making things educational instead of conflicting.

God forbid an atheist carefully explains their own reasoning instead of hiding behind the debate format. It's like ' duck season, no rabbit season ' in looney tunes.

I mean if they feel silly engaging a believer on equal conversational footing then what's the point of RF.

Perhaps there should be an believer/non believer discussion Forum section here. That way a topic can be qualified before ever starting a debate, and the debates might end up to be less repetitive and more engaging.

Or for each thread there could be a discussion or debate option.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

Often, it's because that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[LuisDantas]

Let me ask in a different way.

Why do certain members of RF keep at it toward the same theist members over and over again, accusing them of fallacy, hearsay, ignorance, strawman, or of lying?

The obvious answer is often the correct one.

 

[LuisDantas]

With other religions or spiritual people yes

Do you think that excludes atheists?

That is not the case, nor should it.