JW's in Norway lose government funding

[The Kilted Heathen]

The Norwegian government has removed funding from Jehovah's Witnesses due to the organizations exclusionary practices, of which have been deemed a violation of citizens rights and even child abuse. This decision loses the Jehovah's Witnesses' registration as a religious community.

"We sent a notice to Jehovah’s Witnesses about the possible loss of registration on 25 October this year. In the notice, we asked for feedback on whether they wanted to rectify the conditions that led to the refusal of state subsidies. The community has not wanted to correct the conditions that led to the denial of state grants in 2021, and they express that they still disagree with the decision to deny grants."

While Norway has a State Church, they don't have a State Religion; religious organizations are funded by taxpayer dollars. As such they must meet certain requirements and expectations to continue to receive said funding.

"Loss of registration means that the community no longer has the right to submit claims for state subsidies. It also means that society loses the authority to marry. They are still free to practice their religion and their activities independently of public registration, as the Religious Communities Act is essentially a subsidy act."

 

[nPeace]

The Norwegian government has removed funding from Jehovah's Witnesses due to the organizations exclusionary practices, of which have been deemed a violation of citizens rights and even child abuse. This decision loses the Jehovah's Witnesses' registration as a religious community.

"We sent a notice to Jehovah’s Witnesses about the possible loss of registration on 25 October this year. In the notice, we asked for feedback on whether they wanted to rectify the conditions that led to the refusal of state subsidies. The community has not wanted to correct the conditions that led to the denial of state grants in 2021, and they express that they still disagree with the decision to deny grants."

While Norway has a State Church, they don't have a State Religion; religious organizations are funded by taxpayer dollars. As such they must meet certain requirements and expectations to continue to receive said funding.

"Loss of registration means that the community no longer has the right to submit claims for state subsidies. It also means that society loses the authority to marry. They are still free to practice their religion and their activities independently of public registration, as the Religious Communities Act is essentially a subsidy act."

Let's spread the word. More to come.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I know little to nothing about the Jehovah's Witnesses, but my admittedly poorly informed initial reaction is

• discomfort with the idea of such government subsidies in general, as well as
• discomfort with the idea of government ruling on how an organized religion should deal with apostasy (although clearly one can conceive of situations in which state intervention might be warranted).

 

[nPeace]

I know little to nothing about the Jehovah's Witnesses, but my admittedly poorly informed initial reaction is

• discomfort with the idea of such government subsidies in general, as well as
• discomfort with the idea of government ruling on how an organized religion should deal with apostasy (although clearly one can conceive of situations in which state intervention might be warranted).

From what students of the Bible know, people will soon see what their governments really are.
We may tell them, but they may think we are fanatics.

The Bible however, made it clear from the begining what man-made rule would involve - you know this from the Tanakh, in the book of Samuel.
The Bible also tells us what their role will be, before they are taken out, and whose direction they are under.

It's only a matter of time, before people will actually see what is coming.
It's time for reality check, I suppose we can say.

 

[Windwalker]

Let's spread the word. More to come.

You mean loosing free money because their practices of socially isolating children putting them at risk, is persecution of governments against Christianity? That is outright laughable, to be honest.

First off, JWs are not entitled to free money from the government. It is not some God-given right. Secondly, their actions are harmful to children!! "Love works no ill", and yet "ill" is exactly what they are working, not just against adults who suffer from these hateful shunning practices, but deeply damaging to children.

If I were them, I'd be more concerned about God's judgement, then losing free money they were never entitled to in the first place, because of their own actions in deliberating and maliciously harming others. Corcerion through shunning and intimidation to force them into a religious group, is hardly showing Christ's love.

The government is wise not to fund such groups as that. They show they care about the welfare of its citizens. Such practices cause damage to people. It's not justifiable, just like whipping them with cords, or beating them with fists, are threatening them with burning crosses isn't justifiable as religiously sanctioned practices either, that therefore entitles them to free money.

Persecution, my ***.

 

[nPeace]

You mean loosing free money because their practices of socially isolating children putting them at risk, is persecution of governments against Christianity? That is outright laughable, to be honest.

First off, JWs are not entitled to free money from the government. It is not some God-given right. Secondly, their actions are harmful to children!! "Love works no ill", and yet "ill" is exactly what they are working, not just against adults who suffer from these hateful shunning practices, but deeply damaging to children.

If I were them, I'd be more concerned about God's judgement, then losing free money they were never entitled to in the first place, because of their own actions in deliberating and maliciously harming others. Corcerion through shunning and intimidation to force them into a religious group, is hardly healthy for the citizens of that country. The government is wise not to fund such groups as that. They care about the welfare of its peoples.

I did not say anything that you said here, sorry.
I'm not sure if you were addressing me, or just talking, but I don't think this is a debate forum.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know little to nothing about the Jehovah's Witnesses, but my admittedly poorly informed initial reaction is

• discomfort with the idea of such government subsidies in general, as well as
• discomfort with the idea of government ruling on how an organized religion should deal with apostasy (although clearly one can conceive of situations in which state intervention might be warranted).

This is an example of why Christian extremists should be supporters of separation of church and state. In Norway the government subsidizes religion to an extent. That is what they are losing. If one is willing to accept government money as a church there will probably be government restrictions on what a church can do.

Please note that the only things that are opposed are the practices that puts the JW's into a cult category.

 

[Windwalker]

From what students of the Bible know, people will soon see what their governments really are.
We may tell them, but they may think we are fanatics.

The Bible however, made it clear from the begining what man-made rule would involve - you know this from the Tanakh, in the book of Samuel.
The Bible also tells us what their role will be, before they are taken out, and whose direction they are under.

It's only a matter of time, before people will actually see what is coming.
It's time for reality check, I suppose we can say.

This is what you said, and my response is to this. What you said is in fact more than a debatable comment, so this is not merely reporting current events. Care to address my challenge to your editorializing comments which are debatable, and belong in a debate section instead?

You can't just make comments like that and abuse the forum to hide such highly debatable comments like you did behind the forum name. That lacks integrity.

 

[Left Coast]

The Norwegian government has removed funding from Jehovah's Witnesses due to the organizations exclusionary practices, of which have been deemed a violation of citizens rights and even child abuse. This decision loses the Jehovah's Witnesses' registration as a religious community.

"We sent a notice to Jehovah’s Witnesses about the possible loss of registration on 25 October this year. In the notice, we asked for feedback on whether they wanted to rectify the conditions that led to the refusal of state subsidies. The community has not wanted to correct the conditions that led to the denial of state grants in 2021, and they express that they still disagree with the decision to deny grants."

While Norway has a State Church, they don't have a State Religion; religious organizations are funded by taxpayer dollars. As such they must meet certain requirements and expectations to continue to receive said funding.

"Loss of registration means that the community no longer has the right to submit claims for state subsidies. It also means that society loses the authority to marry. They are still free to practice their religion and their activities independently of public registration, as the Religious Communities Act is essentially a subsidy act."

JWs should be happy about this. They don't want to be associated with any government of "man" anyway. So why should we give them our money?

 

[Heyo]

The Norwegian government has removed funding from Jehovah's Witnesses due to the organizations exclusionary practices, of which have been deemed a violation of citizens rights and even child abuse. This decision loses the Jehovah's Witnesses' registration as a religious community.

"We sent a notice to Jehovah’s Witnesses about the possible loss of registration on 25 October this year. In the notice, we asked for feedback on whether they wanted to rectify the conditions that led to the refusal of state subsidies. The community has not wanted to correct the conditions that led to the denial of state grants in 2021, and they express that they still disagree with the decision to deny grants."

While Norway has a State Church, they don't have a State Religion; religious organizations are funded by taxpayer dollars. As such they must meet certain requirements and expectations to continue to receive said funding.

"Loss of registration means that the community no longer has the right to submit claims for state subsidies. It also means that society loses the authority to marry. They are still free to practice their religion and their activities independently of public registration, as the Religious Communities Act is essentially a subsidy act."

Congratulations to the JWs, I think.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

The Norwegian government has removed funding from Jehovah's Witnesses due to the organizations exclusionary practices, of which have been deemed a violation of citizens rights and even child abuse. This decision loses the Jehovah's Witnesses' registration as a religious community.

"We sent a notice to Jehovah’s Witnesses about the possible loss of registration on 25 October this year. In the notice, we asked for feedback on whether they wanted to rectify the conditions that led to the refusal of state subsidies. The community has not wanted to correct the conditions that led to the denial of state grants in 2021, and they express that they still disagree with the decision to deny grants."

While Norway has a State Church, they don't have a State Religion; religious organizations are funded by taxpayer dollars. As such they must meet certain requirements and expectations to continue to receive said funding.

"Loss of registration means that the community no longer has the right to submit claims for state subsidies. It also means that society loses the authority to marry. They are still free to practice their religion and their activities independently of public registration, as the Religious Communities Act is essentially a subsidy act."

I don't have a problem with that. If they want the support of the state, they need to respect the state's requirements. The Witnesses have a choice to make.

This is a nice illustration of why church-state separation is a misnomer. The state is not separated from the church. It has sovereignty over it and determines the conditions for the church's participation in its jurisdiction. The church needs to be kept out of the state and thus out of the lives of unbelievers, but we depend on the state not disengaging from its oversight of all enterprises occurring in its jurisdiction.

 

[nPeace]

This is what you said, and my response is to this. What you said is in fact more than a debatable comment, so this is not merely reporting current events. Care to address my challenge to your editorializing comments which are debatable, and belong in a debate section instead?

You can't just make comments like that and abuse the forum to hide such highly debatable comments like you did behind the forum name. That lacks integrity.

This is what you said...
You mean loosing free money because their practices of socially isolating children putting them at risk, is persecution of governments against Christianity?

I did not say the government should fund JWs. Nor did I say anything about government against Christianity.

If you want to debate this - pick a fight be my guest, but you will have to create a thread in the appropriate forums.

If you are unfamiliar with the rules here, familiarizing yourself is only a mouse click away.
Or, you could ask for help from a staff member.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Please note that the only things that are opposed are the practices that puts the JW's into a cult category.

"cult" is an interesting label.

 

[Secret Chief]

taxpayer dollars.

taxpayer kroner.

Where's @Seeker of White Light when we need him?

 

[nPeace]

"cult" is an interesting label.

That's been taken a long time ago. People who try to coin that now are late.
I think some Russian authorities would agree with you though. In fact there are a number of lands where governmental authorities would probably consider that.

Informed people for the most part, take a different position... even in those lands.
It's nice to know how you feel about JWs though.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Secondly, their actions are harmful to children!! "Love works no ill", and yet "ill" is exactly what they are working, not just against adults who suffer from these hateful shunning practices, but deeply damaging to children.

Then Christianity is utterly inappropriate for children as the concept and teaching of Hell has a long established history of being emotionally harmful, traumatic and abusive towards children.

 

[nPeace]

This part is interesting,,, It also means that society loses the authority to marry.

Why would government think they can authorize who are allowed to marry? Is marriage a governmental arrangement, or a god given arrangement?

I know how Americans would respond to that... I should say, most.

I think people will see the government in its true light, and its true role. Yup. the ball has started rolling.
At least, people won't be able to say, they weren't told... but they say, seeing is believing.

 

[Windwalker]

This is what you said...
You mean loosing free money because their practices of socially isolating children putting them at risk, is persecution of governments against Christianity?

I did not say the government should fund JWs. Nor did I say anything about government against Christianity.

You didn't? Then what pray tell is this:

From what students of the Bible know, people will soon see what their governments really are.
We may tell them, but they may think we are fanatics.

The Bible however, made it clear from the begining what man-made rule would involve - you know this from the Tanakh, in the book of Samuel.
The Bible also tells us what their role will be, before they are taken out, and whose direction they are under.

It's only a matter of time, before people will actually see what is co
ming.
It's time for reality check, I suppose we can say.

​

You just decried the government for "what they really are", that they are under the direction of Satan (what you implied there), and that they will be "taken out". You were very directly saying this is a sign of the end times because the church is supposedly being "persecuted". Are you going to try to wiggle out of this? I don't know how, based upon what you said above.

​

If you want to debate this - pick a fight be my guest, but you will have to create a thread in the appropriate forums.

Wrong. You don't get to post inflammatory misleading posts like this under the protection of it being a "non-debate" form, when your topic is more than debatable. You don't get to have your cake and eat too, as the saying goes. You are the one who started the debate itself in this post I just quoted above, making this a debate thread that the mod staff should move to a debate thread since you put it in the wrong place, deliberately in order to avoid any challenges to it. You don't get to shut down those who challenge this nonsense by hiding behind the forum name like that. That's just being dishonest.

If you are unfamiliar with the rules here, familiarizing yourself is only a mouse click away.
Or, you could ask for help from a staff member.

I'm familiar with the rules, and I'm familiar with how mod staff move threads like this to the appropriate forums when someone pulls shenanigans like this.

 

[Windwalker]

This part is interesting,,, It also means that society loses the authority to marry.

Why would government think they can authorize who are allowed to marry? Is marriage a governmental arrangement, or a god given arrangement?

I know how Americans would respond to that... I should say, most.

I think people will see the government in its true light, and its true role. Yup. the ball has started rolling.
At least, people won't be able to say, they weren't told... but they say, seeing is believing.

It sounds like you're debating here. Not to worry, I've let the mod staff know this thread should be moved to a debate forum, since you've made it into one.

 

[nPeace]

You didn't? Then what pray tell is this:

​

You just decried the government for "what they really are", that they are under the direction of Satan (what you implied there), and that they will be "taken out". You were very directly saying this is a sign of the end times because the church is supposedly being "persecuted". Are you going to try to wiggle out of this? I don't know how, based upon what you said above.

If that's what you got from it, and you want to debate it, like I said, feel free to create a thread in a debate forum.

Wrong. You don't get to post inflammatory misleading posts like this under the protection of it being a "non-debate" form, when your topic is more than debatable. You don't get to have your cake and eat too, as the saying goes. You are the one who started the debate itself in this post I just quoted above, making this a debate thread that the mod staff should move to a debate thread since you put it in the wrong place, deliberately in order to avoid any challenges to it. You don't get to shut down those who challenge this nonsense by hiding behind the forum name like that. That's just being dishonest.
Inflammatory misleading posts?

You mean I am not allowed to make comments in a discussion forum, so long as you hate what I say?
You're joking right?

I'm familiar with the rules, and I'm familiar with how mod staff move threads like this to the appropriate forums when someone pulls shenanigans like this.

Good for you.