Who is master?
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JW's Jesus is Archangel Michael?
- Thread starter Yoshua
- Start date
Uh. I wouldn't be so sure as you seem to be so sure of your words.
The question is how do people know Michael means he who is like God and not a question who? is like God?
Is not the history of the world according to God about the people whose wish it is to be like God? The good want to be like God in love and the bad want to be like God in power. So? Michael is he who fights the bad and protects the good.
Is not the history of the world according to God about the people whose wish it is to be like God? The good want to be like God in love and the bad want to be like God in power. So? Michael is he who fights the bad and protects the good.
Michael is not master.
Ron Hackel
Member
If you no interest in my proceeding that is perfectly okay.
I do not know what this post means. Are you not interested in continuing if I am not 100% in agreement with you? I am not.
God is a god of order which is opposite of confusion. Actually, I understand the origin of Babylon means confusion.
Nobody would write Jesus with two personalities. They just wouldn't.
There is one God. There is one Lord. God has only one begotten son who was at the beginning with God. In scripture Michael and Jesus show up at the same time. Do they not?
Ron Hackel
Member
Does the son of man and Jesus show up at the same time? Does Emmanuel and Jesus show up bat the same time. Does the Prince of Peace and Jesus show up at the same time? Does savagewind and whatever your name is show up at the same time? It's just another name describing Jesus. He was the chief messenger who in appearance was like God. What is the big deal? If you would have let me continue it would have become clear, although I think you'd have lots to say about anything being clear.
Except for Michael meaning archangel is there any evidence Jesus is Michael?
A person's name and what they are called are different. Jesus is CALLED Emmanuel and the Prince of Peace.
My name is Nancy but some people call me crazy. I am not crazy.
Except for Michael meaning archangel is there any evidence Jesus is Michael?
Some people do not agree with you that the Lord Jesus Christ is the son of man. I think he is rightly called son of man at his birth. But then at his baptism he is son of God.
Before any living thing, there was no sin. Correct? Was Jesus at the beginning before any living thing?
If Jesus is Michael then Michael was before any living thing.
If Jesus is Michael then Michael was before any living thing.
Michael, an angel, a created being. Jesus, an angel, a created being. Jesus meaning YHVH is salvation. Michael meaning who is like God. WHOSE salvation does Jesus come with? Isaiah 43:11
Is Jesus the lord of believing? If Jesus is Lord then Michael is a lord too.
The evidence that Michael is Jesus is that Michael is called the archangel.
Is there any other evidence that Michael and Jesus are the same?
The evidence that Michael is Jesus is that Michael is called the archangel.
Is there any other evidence that Michael and Jesus are the same?
Ron Hackel
Member
Nancy
What a surprise that some would call you crazy!
As you know, I'm new here. Are you a J.W.? I can show that someone called an angel was worshiped. None of the beings most think of as angels are ever worshiped. In fact an angel in Revelation told John not to to do it, to Worship God! (Rev 22:9)
Gideon worshiped an angel (messenger). The messenger allowed it to happen. The messenger in no way tried to stop it as the angel in Revelation had. So now are you going to tell me it was a rogue angel. If you want to you can spin scripture any way you want.
There was a messenger (angel) in the bush when Moses approached it. when Moses approached the bush GOD called FROM WITHIN the bush that Moses was standing on holy ground. Are you going to say there were two in the bush?
In Joshua 5 the leader of the Lord's army allowed Joshua to worship him and told him he was standing on holy ground (was in the presence of the Lord)
Now if you're going to say it wasn't the Lord because he was the leader of the Lord's army, both the Son and the Father are called Lord. If not, it makes Psalm 110 impossible.
PSALM 110 : 1 "The Lord says to my Lord"
In Revelation 19 we have the Rider on the horse and his name was the Word of God. as John said the Word was God and the Word was with God. This person was leading the armies of heaven. He was also called Faithful and True. I don't know how you're going to spin this but this is a description of Jesus.
God had the Jews write in synonymous parallels to help know what words meant for this very purpose. By repeating the same thought using different words you could know with better accuracy what the writer meant.
HOSEA 12 : 3&4 "as a man he struggled with God. He struggled with the angel and overcame him."
Remember there was no punctuation in Hebrew, so interpreters guessed.
ZECHARIAH 12 : 8 "David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them." The angel of the Lord going before the Jews as the pillar of light was the Son of God
1 CORINTHIANS 10 : 3&4 "They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."
DANIEL 10 : 13 "Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. It's the Father's kingdom. The trinity would then have two princes. A plural in Hebrew without a number is always considered two.
The prophets came with God's message in Scripture and Michael was the chief messenger.
DEUTERONOMY 18 : 17&18 "The Lord said to me: What they say is good. I will raise up a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth."\
JOHN 8 : 28 "I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me"
What a surprise that some would call you crazy!
As you know, I'm new here. Are you a J.W.? I can show that someone called an angel was worshiped. None of the beings most think of as angels are ever worshiped. In fact an angel in Revelation told John not to to do it, to Worship God! (Rev 22:9)
Gideon worshiped an angel (messenger). The messenger allowed it to happen. The messenger in no way tried to stop it as the angel in Revelation had. So now are you going to tell me it was a rogue angel. If you want to you can spin scripture any way you want.
There was a messenger (angel) in the bush when Moses approached it. when Moses approached the bush GOD called FROM WITHIN the bush that Moses was standing on holy ground. Are you going to say there were two in the bush?
In Joshua 5 the leader of the Lord's army allowed Joshua to worship him and told him he was standing on holy ground (was in the presence of the Lord)
Now if you're going to say it wasn't the Lord because he was the leader of the Lord's army, both the Son and the Father are called Lord. If not, it makes Psalm 110 impossible.
PSALM 110 : 1 "The Lord says to my Lord"
In Revelation 19 we have the Rider on the horse and his name was the Word of God. as John said the Word was God and the Word was with God. This person was leading the armies of heaven. He was also called Faithful and True. I don't know how you're going to spin this but this is a description of Jesus.
God had the Jews write in synonymous parallels to help know what words meant for this very purpose. By repeating the same thought using different words you could know with better accuracy what the writer meant.
HOSEA 12 : 3&4 "as a man he struggled with God. He struggled with the angel and overcame him."
Remember there was no punctuation in Hebrew, so interpreters guessed.
ZECHARIAH 12 : 8 "David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them." The angel of the Lord going before the Jews as the pillar of light was the Son of God
1 CORINTHIANS 10 : 3&4 "They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ."
DANIEL 10 : 13 "Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me. It's the Father's kingdom. The trinity would then have two princes. A plural in Hebrew without a number is always considered two.
The prophets came with God's message in Scripture and Michael was the chief messenger.
DEUTERONOMY 18 : 17&18 "The Lord said to me: What they say is good. I will raise up a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth."\
JOHN 8 : 28 "I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me"
No, but I was and I learned from them.
OK
I do not put as much confidence in scripture to be able to make such a conclusion.
No
It is about perception which is never perfect.
Yes, it is Jesus imo.
Good and true I think.
Your opinion. The JWs teach that but I don't believe it though it might have some truth to it.
Where is the cross reference which says JESUS Christ. Christ means chosen and anointed. Is that right? So David was Christ to Israel. True or false?
I don't argue the trinity. The commandment says not to make an image of God and I take that to mean a mental image also. Ancient man had no understanding of consciousness so God could not have commanded it then or people would be looking in instead of looking out.
You made this up.
Why isn't that about Joshua in your opinion?
I believe that.
Ron Hackel
Member
Nancy
David was the anointed king of Israel. a lot of this was to show the Jews symbolically what was going to happen. There king which was supposed to be God-Jesus was to be anointed with the Holy Spirit in the Jordan. Oil is supposed to be symbolic for the Spirit. David was simply a type of what was to come in the future.
If you quit with all this verbal gymnastics I could get on and show how Jesus was the chief messenger.
On raising up a prophet, what words did he put in Joshua's mouth? The Jews would not believe in a God of love. When they saw the fire they concluded the worst.
God's glory to them looked like a devouring fire. They wouldn't listen to the God he was and asked that Moses talk to them instead because they were afraid of God. God said what they say is good and that he'd raise up a prophet like Moses to talk to them. It makes no sense that it was Joshua. If you let me continue, you'll see this is the same thing that is going to bite the Christians on the last day.
God's messengers and the chief messenger according to Rev 12:7 were fighting the verbal war. Lucifer said he could rule the universe superior to God. God as love allows his beings to rest their assertions. There are several Scriptures that say Lucifer is in charge of this world. God created the world in 6 days and has allowed Lucifer 6000 years to test his assertions. For as Peter said a day is like a thousand years to the Lord. Since Lucifer is being allowed to test his claims God cannot interfere in any degree so that the test seems fair. Only a very few were ever given the knowledge of God's true character (prophets). And basically no one ever believed them, but the proof is there for the end. Here is the Scriptureto back this up
EPHESIANS 3 : 10 "His intent (God's plan) was that now through the church (called out ones-Jesus said, I have chosen you and not you me) the manifold wisdom of God (How God runs the universe through the law of love) should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms (the beings Lucifer had brought into doubt), according to his eternal purpose (this has always been the plan and will continue into eternity) which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."
We have the chief messenger and the messengers (the prophets) fighting the war in heaven.
1 PETER 2 : 9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
Basically saying the same thing as Paul that the disciples were chosen to proclaim the character of God to the world.
EXODUS 19 : 5&6 ":Noe if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."
The Jews were chosen to do what the disciples would do.
JEREMIAH 13 : 11 "For as a belt is bound around a man's waist, so I bound the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah to me, declares the Lord, 'to be my people for my renown and praise and honor. But they have not listened."
Do you see the Jews were supposed to present the true character of God to the world. The entire world worshiped angry legalistic gods. The next verse following this one is important although it will make no sense now.
JEREMIAH 13 : 12 "Every wineskin should be filled with wine."
HOSEA 6 : 7 "Like Adam they have broken the covenant-they were unfaithful to me there"
I hope you can see that if Adam was the first under the covenant mankind was created to show God's character to the universe.
I'll talk about the wine analogy next. Hopefully you won't have to many questions.
David was the anointed king of Israel. a lot of this was to show the Jews symbolically what was going to happen. There king which was supposed to be God-Jesus was to be anointed with the Holy Spirit in the Jordan. Oil is supposed to be symbolic for the Spirit. David was simply a type of what was to come in the future.
If you quit with all this verbal gymnastics I could get on and show how Jesus was the chief messenger.
On raising up a prophet, what words did he put in Joshua's mouth? The Jews would not believe in a God of love. When they saw the fire they concluded the worst.
God's glory to them looked like a devouring fire. They wouldn't listen to the God he was and asked that Moses talk to them instead because they were afraid of God. God said what they say is good and that he'd raise up a prophet like Moses to talk to them. It makes no sense that it was Joshua. If you let me continue, you'll see this is the same thing that is going to bite the Christians on the last day.
God's messengers and the chief messenger according to Rev 12:7 were fighting the verbal war. Lucifer said he could rule the universe superior to God. God as love allows his beings to rest their assertions. There are several Scriptures that say Lucifer is in charge of this world. God created the world in 6 days and has allowed Lucifer 6000 years to test his assertions. For as Peter said a day is like a thousand years to the Lord. Since Lucifer is being allowed to test his claims God cannot interfere in any degree so that the test seems fair. Only a very few were ever given the knowledge of God's true character (prophets). And basically no one ever believed them, but the proof is there for the end. Here is the Scriptureto back this up
EPHESIANS 3 : 10 "His intent (God's plan) was that now through the church (called out ones-Jesus said, I have chosen you and not you me) the manifold wisdom of God (How God runs the universe through the law of love) should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms (the beings Lucifer had brought into doubt), according to his eternal purpose (this has always been the plan and will continue into eternity) which he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."
We have the chief messenger and the messengers (the prophets) fighting the war in heaven.
1 PETER 2 : 9 "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light."
Basically saying the same thing as Paul that the disciples were chosen to proclaim the character of God to the world.
EXODUS 19 : 5&6 ":Noe if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation."
The Jews were chosen to do what the disciples would do.
JEREMIAH 13 : 11 "For as a belt is bound around a man's waist, so I bound the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah to me, declares the Lord, 'to be my people for my renown and praise and honor. But they have not listened."
Do you see the Jews were supposed to present the true character of God to the world. The entire world worshiped angry legalistic gods. The next verse following this one is important although it will make no sense now.
JEREMIAH 13 : 12 "Every wineskin should be filled with wine."
HOSEA 6 : 7 "Like Adam they have broken the covenant-they were unfaithful to me there"
I hope you can see that if Adam was the first under the covenant mankind was created to show God's character to the universe.
I'll talk about the wine analogy next. Hopefully you won't have to many questions.
Jesus did not come with a message. John 14:9
Define message: a verbal, written, or recorded communication sent to or left for a recipient who cannot be contacted directly.
Jesus is God contacting God's children directly. John 1:14 John 8:19 John 12:45 Colossians 1:15 Hebrews 1:3 1 John 5:20
Ron Hackle are you a Jehovah's Witness?