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JW's Preach A Different Gospel

Wharton

Active Member
Where might I find that at? I don't believe I have ever read it. Thank you for pointing it out!! I like to quote facts, if I'm wrong I will want to delete that post.

Matthew 23:2-3New International Version (NIV)

2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

The funny thing is there is no seat of Moses in the OT.
 

Wharton

Active Member
Where might I find that at? I don't believe I have ever read it. Thank you for pointing it out!! I like to quote facts, if I'm wrong I will want to delete that post.

Matthew 23:2-3New International Version (NIV)

2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

The funny thing is there is no seat of Moses in the OT.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Matthew 23:2-3New International Version (NIV)

2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.
3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

The funny thing is there is no seat of Moses in the OT.


John 9:28-29 (ESVST) 28 And they reviled him, saying, " You are his disciple, but we are disciples of Moses. 29 We know that God has spoken to Moses, but as for this man, we do not know where he comes from."

Maybe Jesus said that because they knew the Mosaic law well. He said to listen to what they say, but don't do what they do. Interesting!
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? "God's chosen teachers" were the Pharisees and Sadducees? Jesus called the a brood of vipers and white washed tombs, God didn't "CHOOSE" them. They were like the GB, self appointed, self proclaimed. All through the Bible it tells who God chose to be His servant, and then it told who Jesus chose. It doesn't say anywhere that God chose the Pharisees and Sadducees. Give me a break. The last person God chose to use was John the Baptist. Please, do you think you're talking to people that have never studied the Bible?


Jesus attended the temples and synagogues for 30 years--the Israelites were Gods chosen--they were the scholars of the day--their refusal to make corrections and sending their Messiah to his death--got them cut off-Matt 23:37-38-- Jesus gave them every chance to make corrections before he called them those things. They were Gods chosen, until they were officially cut off--The renting of the banner in two at the precise moment when Jesus died was that official cutting off.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
The Witnesses argue that the Son is inferior in nature to the Father from verses such as these: "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing" (John 5:19). "I have not come of my own initiative, but he that sent me is real, and you do not know him. I know him because I am a representative from him, and that one sent me forth" (John 7:28-29). "I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am" (John 14:28).
What can be said about these verses? First, they may be referring to Christ’s human nature, as distinguished from his divine nature. His human nature, being created, is clearly subordinate to the Father’s divine nature.
Second, they may also refer to Christ’s person insofar as the person of the Son is generated or begotten by the person of the Father. This doesn’t mean he is unequal in his divine nature and therefore not divine. It means there is a certain logical relationship between the two persons of the Father and the Son (who are both equally divine) in which it may be said, rightly, that "the Father is greater than I"—greater in the order of the three divine persons, not greater in the order of nature or being.
Third, they may refer to the Son’s role in the economy of redemption. He came to fulfill the Father’s will in redeeming us and to reveal the Father to us, thus serving the Father. Hence, the Father holds a position in some sense superior to his. Thus the Son might be said to be inferior to the Father in the role he plays, but not in his essential nature.
Are there verses that argue against the Witnesses’ position? Sure. One example is John 5:1-18, where Jesus cures a man on the Sabbath. The Jews became angry because Jesus "worked" on the Sabbath, and in response Jesus said, "‘My Father has kept working until now, and I keep working.’ On this account indeed, the Jews began seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath but he was also calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God" (verses 17-18). Only God can be equal to himself, and this passage therefore shows that Jesus is God.
The Witnesses also ignore the import of Matthew 28:19: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit." Another translator’s slip here? Note the singular "name." If the Father, Son, and "holy spirit" were three different entities—God, exalted creature, and impersonal force—then they’d have three names, not one name. The fact that the singular is used implies a unity of being.
What is that one name that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit share? If there is a single, revealed name for all three Persons, that name may be Yahweh. There can be no question that God is referred to in the Old Testament as Yahweh (understood by the JWs as "Jehovah"), and this name applies to the Son as well. For example, Jesus speaking in John 8:24 says, "Therefore I said to you, You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins." Notice that the NWT has added "he" in brackets to obscure the fact that the Greek words here are the words for "I Am." ("He" is not present.) An identical situation occurs at John 8:28.
As any Bible student knows, "I Am" corresponds to Jehovah or Yahweh (cf. Ex. 3:14:"God said to Moses . . . ‘Say to the people of Israel, ‘I Am has sent me to you,’" RSV).


If your theory is correct to Jesus being inferior as a mortal, then it is a 100% guarantee he did not get worship as trinity translations say, and The JW teachers are correct, he received obeisance to a king. They are correct anyways.

The real translating of the Hebrew words in the ot is not--I am that I am-- it is I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.
Yes believe that he was the one sent forth by God--The Messiah, is what Jesus was saying.
 

Wharton

Active Member
Jesus attended the temples and synagogues for 30 years--the Israelites were Gods chosen--they were the scholars of the day--their refusal to make corrections and sending their Messiah to his death--got them cut off-Matt 23:37-38-- Jesus gave them every chance to make corrections before he called them those things. They were Gods chosen, until they were officially cut off--The renting of the banner in two at the precise moment when Jesus died was that official cutting off.
Ah, no. It was their varying interpretations of the Law which still goes on today. The rabbi's job was to be smarter than God.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
If the GB would have listened to Jesus in the first place, what "correction" would they have had to make?


Satan doesn't stop trying to wreck it all, imperfect mortals err. When error is found the wise correct it. Hard to be absolutely correct when alls one has is error filled trinity translating to go by. Takes much hard study of Gods written word, old writings, history, language--it takes years.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Phi 2:4-8 (ESVST) . 5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

Of course God was greater than Him, what do you believe He emptied Himself of? What does, "taking on the form of a servant" mean to you? And, "being found in human form"?


He was second in command in heaven, that is what he emptied himself of-He became--lower than the angels as a mortal--proving 100%--the true followers did not bow in worship like trinity translations show to deceive--they bowed in obeisance to their king.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Fact: If you knew anything about the Jewish teaching system, you would see your error. You are the "fathers" Jesus spoke about. Not fit to teach or lead. If your "teachers" don't have apostolic succession, they fail. Failing that, they need to be working miracles as evidence of God's approval. If not, you're following "wolves."


Not in this world
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
All that tells me is that they're always WRONG.


Every religion on earth is wrong--the one that makes corrections -WILL- prove to be right in the end.
Light is very bright now--you see if it wasn't neither of these would be truth, but we all know they are--Daniel 12:4--John 4:22-24
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Ah, no. It was their varying interpretations of the Law which still goes on today. The rabbi's job was to be smarter than God.

Hardly. they can never be smarter--yes they added error--Jesus told them their errors--their hearts turned to hatred.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
True, but always Remember, satan can appear as an angel of light.
And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness; it will be for those who walk on that Way. The unclean will not journey on it; wicked fools will not go about on it. Isaiah 35:8 Satan does not walk on that narrow road. Matthew 7:14 If satan's light shines for you then you are not on the narrow road to life.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Are you saying that your Watchtower literature is second-hand information?

As for me ever going to one of your meetings, that'll never happen! You're saying that the only way to understand what Watchtower teaches is to become part of their org? No thank you. I've read their literature and listen to what you and other JW's teach. That's enough for me.

Please don't deny that Watchtower teaches that salvation and correct Bible interpretation come through the WTO ALONE. It's in their literature. They have repeatedly claimed it. And people like KJW47 reinforce it when he makes claims that certain Scriptures in Revelation or from the prophets mean what he says they mean, and the rest of us are wrong. That is so arrogant. None of us has perfect interpretation. The best we can do is speculate.

Well thats a shame because you are being gravely misled by apostates who actively seek to keep people away from Jehovah by slyly twisting what we say and do.

One thing ive come to realise too is that anyone who continues to believe in the trinity will never come to know Jehovah because he is a God who requires exclusive devotion....and you cant give that to him if you dividing your worship between 3 gods. You think you can but i assure you its impossible.
And that is why the majority of christians do not even know who Jehovah is and for that reason alone they will not find salvation.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Satan doesn't stop trying to wreck it all, imperfect mortals err. When error is found the wise correct it. Hard to be absolutely correct when alls one has is error filled trinity translating to go by. Takes much hard study of Gods written word, old writings, history, language--it takes years.

I just don't understand your reasoning. When you protect the false teachers of your religion with the "imperfect men" story, you show the mind control they have on you. Let's take Paul for example, he was an "imperfect man", did he ever "TEACH" a false idea or understanding? He may have had moments of not understandings, but did he ever "TEACH OR PREACH" what he didn't understand? Did any prophet or apostle ever have to "ADJUST" their thinking or teachings? They were no different then your so called slave. Why does your slave teach so much error?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Fact: If you knew anything about the Jewish teaching system, you would see your error. You are the "fathers" Jesus spoke about. Not fit to teach or lead. If your "teachers" don't have apostolic succession, they fail. Failing that, they need to be working miracles as evidence of God's approval. If not, you're following "wolves."

There is no apostolic succession. That idea was made up by the catholic clergy. It has no basis in the christian scriptures.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
I just don't understand your reasoning. When you protect the false teachers of your religion with the "imperfect men" story, you show the mind control they have on you. Let's take Paul for example, he was an "imperfect man", did he ever "TEACH" a false idea or understanding? He may have had moments of not understandings, but did he ever "TEACH OR PREACH" what he didn't understand? Did any prophet or apostle ever have to "ADJUST" their thinking or teachings? They were no different then your so called slave. Why does your slave teach so much error?


Paul didn't have to undo 1750 years of false teachings out of erred translation. In Peters letters--false teachings started to get in-he corrected them. In Titus--they left him behind in that congregation to make corrections of error teachings that got in.( Titus 1:5)--When The apostles and Christians were all murdered--so was a lot of truth--the religion basically died. At that point all who displayed being a Christian were murdered. They tried to bring it back later but this rose in its place-2Thess 2:3) and ever since they rose up--The Israelite teachers have been telling them, the god they teach and serve is not the God, the Israelites served all those years. The trinity answer is--The Israelites did not know God= Bull.
 

Wharton

Active Member
There is no apostolic succession. That idea was made up by the catholic clergy. It has no basis in the christian scriptures.
Ah no. The idea was made up by the Jews. Jesus used that system. He waited until he was 30 years old as required. Then chose his talmidim. He was called rabbi/teacher because he used that system. So you really think that he abandoned the Jewish teaching method? Do you really think that the apostles would abandon the method Jesus taught them with? Nah. It's biblical.

I'll help you along so you can see that the GB is neither fit to lead or teach and that would include most Protestant teachers. They have no semikhah.

According to the Hebrew Bible, Moses ordained Joshua through semikhah. (Num 27:15–23, Deut 34:9). Moses also ordained the 70 elders (Num 11:16–25). The elders later ordained their successors in this way. Their successors in turn ordained others. This chain of hands-on semikhah continued through the time of the Second Temple, to an undetermined time.[original research?][citation needed]

Traditionally Moses is also assumed to be the "first rabbi" of the Children of Israel. He is still known to most Jews as Moshe Rabbeinu ("Moses our Teacher"). Moses was also a prophet, and it is a fundamental Jewish belief that he was the greatest of all the Hebrew Bible's prophets. Moses passed his leadership on to Joshua as commanded by God in the Book of Numbers where the subject of semikhah ("laying [of hands]" or "ordination") is first mentioned in the Torah:
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
You're preaching to the choir here, my friend. I happen to see all three of these religions, JW's, Mormons and Roman Catholicism as false. Any religion which claims a human leader as its head is from Satan, and not from our one true GOD.
Then you can add first century Christianity to your list of false religions, unless you believe that the Apostles were not human leaders.

Oh, katie, how I wish you were not so filled with hatred. Whenever I read a comment like this, I can't help but think of Mark 9:38-41, which says:

And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

The Apostles apparently thought that Jesus would be quite proud of them for looking down their noses at someone they apparently worshipped a false Christ and followed a false gospel. Jesus rebuked them and told them not to be so exclusionary in the future, and that "he that is not against us is on our part." I feel very confident that He would tell you exactly the same thing.

Jesus is not Michael the archangel. God did not come from another planet, and the Pope is not Jesus Christ's spokesperson on earth.
Please don't misrepresent Mormonism. I know you would like everyone to hate us as much as you do, but at least get your facts straight.
 
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