JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[Katzpur]

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Oh wow. A further display of your maturity. Nice going.

 

[JFish123]

Oh wow. A further display of your maturity. Nice going.

Maturity is debating the evidence, which you've still failed to do in the mean time, I make jest.

 

[savagewind]

They don't debate and I am sure they won't debate.

They do not believe the Bible at Proverbs 11:14 Proverbs 15:22 Proverbs 24:6

 

[Katzpur]

Maturity is debating the evidence, which you've still failed to do in the mean time, I make jest.

You have provided no evidence, merely accusations. If I were to say:

JFish123 believes the moon in made of green cheese.
JFish123 believes monkeys have wings.
JFish123 believes black is white and that green is red.

what kind of evidence would you be able to provide that these things are not true? All you could really do was tell me that these claims were false. If I were to ignore you and were instead to post more lies -- lies so preposterous as to not even warrant a response, lies like these:

JFish123 sacrifices children to his god, Satan.
JFish123 has sex with his dog.
JFish123 is in his twenties and is still not toilet-trained.

sooner or later you'd start thinking my approach was pretty juvenile. There is nothing immature in refusing to respond someone who considers the above example to be "debate." Plagiarism, on the other hand (which we both know you're guilty of) is a tactic frequently used by lazy children who don't want to do their homework. Just consider this: If you have to undercut another person’s position to make your position look good, there is something seriously lacking in your position. I don't think anybody on this forum really knows a thing about what you believe, because none of your posts really give us any insights into anything other than what you think you know about other people's beliefs. And most of what you post about other people's beliefs is not evidence at all, just half-truths and parodies concocted by Matt Slick.

 

[Katzpur]

They don't debate and I am sure they won't debate.

They do not believe the Bible at Proverbs 11:14 Proverbs 15:22 Proverbs 24:6

Uh... who's "they"? People like JFish123? Or people like me? I'm not quite sure what you're thinking.

 

[savagewind]

Uh... who's "they"? People like JFish123? Or people like me? I'm not quite sure what you're thinking.

The Jehovah's Witnesses will not address anything that differs from their diet that is fed to them by the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses. They call all disagreement "bashing". In fact, they call people who question any dogma of theirs "sick" and "mentally diseased".

Will You Heed Jehovah’s Clear Warnings? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

"5 How do false teachers operate? Their methods reveal a cunning spirit. Apostates “quietly bring in” corruptive ideas. Like smugglers, they operate in a clandestine manner, subtly introducing apostate views.....Clearly, apostates do not have our best interests at heart. ....Why go to such dried-up wells only to be deceived and disappointed? .....By heeding God’s warning to separate ourselves and “quit touching the unclean thing,” we will not be misled by false stories......"

"Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings."

 

[JFish123]

You have provided no evidence, merely accusations. If I were to say:

JFish123 believes the moon in made of green cheese.
JFish123 believes monkeys have wings.
JFish123 believes black is white and that green is red.

what kind of evidence would you be able to provide that these things are not true? All you could really do was tell me that these claims were false. If I were to ignore you and were instead to post more lies -- lies so preposterous as to not even warrant a response, lies like these:

JFish123 sacrifices children to his god, Satan.
JFish123 has sex with his dog.
JFish123 is in his twenties and is still not toilet-trained.

sooner or later you'd start thinking my approach was pretty juvenile. There is nothing immature in refusing to respond someone who considers the above example to be "debate." Plagiarism, on the other hand (which we both know you're guilty of) is a tactic frequently used by lazy children who don't want to do their homework. Just consider this: If you have to undercut another person’s position to make your position look good, there is something seriously lacking in your position. I don't think anybody on this forum really knows a thing about what you believe, because none of your posts really give us any insights into anything other than what you think you know about other people's beliefs. And most of what you post about other people's beliefs is not evidence at all, just half-truths and parodies concocted by Matt Slick.

#1: I post evidence all the time. The very post we were debating which started this, I gave clear historical evidence that the date the Jehovahs Witnesses use to calculate there 1914 prediction is false. If I ever accuse, I also give EVIDENCE as to why it is wrong. Even many memes I create do such a thing
#2: EVERYONE gets there information somewhere in life. As to know anything, we have to learn about it. I learn through books, history, the Bible, apologetics from books/internet (so long as it's backed up by fact), etc... And if doing research, I find the answers from others THAT I AGREE WITH, so why would I bother typing the truth out again and waste that amount of time, when I can just show what TRUTH another person already has on the topic? You call it cut and paste (trying to signal well, if he did that it's not true) instead of Seeing what TRUTH I found, that I agree with, and debating on said EVIDENCE. But instead you toss the EVIDENCE aside because I got it from another source. Does that make the EVIDENCE any less true? No, it does not and we ALL get our evidence from other sources at one point or another, unless your saying your God and knew all these things from birth

 

[JFish123]

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[savagewind]

Let's just say I am right that Jesus never said to make disciples and that love does become provoked. Then according to the JWs who won't consider either as right Jesus and the writer of 1 Corinthians 13:5 are apostates because they differ from what the gb teach. But they won't talk about it. If I am right then the JWs are apostates. Actually everyone is.....if I am right.........................................................................but nobody will talk about it. Neither side will.......it's just like I don't exist. I do not pick on other people because other people do not have the name The Truth and because other people do not teach in the Name of Jehovah.

 

[Katzpur]

#2: EVERYONE gets there information somewhere in life. As to know anything, we have to learn about it. I learn through books, history, the Bible, apologetics from books/internet (so long as it's backed up by fact), etc.

Yeah, well, I don't know how much of what you've posted about JWs is fact and how much is fiction, and I really don't care. I'm not on RF to try to tear other people's religions down. I was referring to the lies you've posted about my religion.

And if doing research, I find the answers from others THAT I AGREE WITH, so why would I bother typing the truth out again and waste that amount of time, when I can just show what TRUTH another person already has on the topic? You call it cut and paste (trying to signal well, if he did that it's not true) instead of Seeing what TRUTH I found, that I agree with, and debating on said EVIDENCE. But instead you toss the EVIDENCE aside because I got it from another source. Does that make the EVIDENCE any less true? No, it does not and we ALL get our evidence from other sources at one point or another, unless your saying your God and knew all these things from birth

Sorry, but cutting and pasting from another source without identifying that source is and always will be plagiarism. And as you have already learned, it's not a good idea to do that on this website. (I'd put you on ignore, but I know that you'll continue to plagiarize unless someone takes the initiative to report you.)

But my main point is still this: Why are you so intent on tearing other people's beliefs down? Is that really what it takes to build your self-esteem? You evidently think these tactics work, but the truth of the matter is that more often than not they backfire.

 

[savagewind]

Yeah, well, I don't know how much of what you've posted about JWs is fact and how much is fiction, and I really don't care. I'm not on RF to try to tear other people's religions down. I was referring to the lies you've posted about my religion.

Sorry, but cutting and pasting from another source without identifying that source is and always will be plagiarism. And as you have already learned, it's not a good idea to do that on this website. (I'd put you on ignore, but I know that you'll continue to plagiarize unless someone takes the initiative to report you.)

But my main point is still this: Why are you so intent on tearing other people's beliefs down? Is that really what it takes to build your self-esteem? You just don't seem to get the degree to which these tactics backfire.

People who are desperate to get the truth known do not care about their personal image. SOME people will understand that the Jehovah's Witnesses are just another religion of which the Bible Students (the former name of their organization) say "religion is a snare and a racket" and save someone a lot of trouble.

 

[JFish123]

Yeah, well, I don't know how much of what you've posted about JWs is fact and how much is fiction, and I really don't care. I'm not on RF to try to tear other people's religions down. I was referring to the lies you've posted about my religion.

Sorry, but cutting and pasting from another source without identifying that source is and always will be plagiarism. And as you have already learned, it's not a good idea to do that on this website. (I'd put you on ignore, but I know that you'll continue to plagiarize unless someone takes the initiative to report you.)

But my main point is still this: Why are you so intent on tearing other people's beliefs down? Is that really what it takes to build your self-esteem? You evidently think these tactics work, but the truth of the matter is that more often than not they backfire.

I'm intent on teaching what is truth and what is false. Again, if you or anyone has evidence to the contrary let's debate, if you have no such evidence that my evidence is somehow false then why reply against my evidence?

 

[Yoshua]

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Nice. I like this.

 

[Yoshua]

I see you must resort to the childish nonsense again. I can only plead with you to grow up.

This is what really happening. Do you come to a point that you study the scripture by yourself and not dependent on the Watchtower/JW teacher?

Thanks

 

[Yoshua]

They undertook a careful study of the scriptures to see if Christendom's doctrines stood up to scrutiny. They basically dismissed all prior knowledge and started from scratch. They allowed the Bible itself to teach them under the direction of God's spirit.
From their studies, they concluded that the core doctrines of Christendom were not scriptural. The 'cleansing and refining' foretold by Daniel, had begun......but like all refining work, it was a process of bringing the impurities to the surface and eliminating them, one by one.

Hi Jay,

If that would be the case, it might seem JW organization is dependent with Russell and his group. If in case that there is another group who did what Russell and company do during 1800’s to 2000’s, would you think this is valid and true?

As I have stated, we believe that these men fulfilled the scriptures stating that God's worship would be cleansed and refined at "the time of the end". (Dan 12:4, 9, 10) Knowledge would become abundant at this time but the wicked, who refused the cleansing and the knowledge would understand nothing.

Just as Jesus provided the knowledge concerning God's truth to his chosen ones back in the first century, so he does today. Jesus said we would know his true disciples by the "fruits" they produce.
As a united brotherhood we follow Jesus' teachings in all things. We don't just choose the parts that are confortable and dismiss the rest. We do what Jesus commanded....something the churches do not do in any united fashion on a global scale. (Matt 10:11-15; 28:19, 20)

None of the apostles were teachers or public speakers either at first. But under Christ's direction, they became excellent teachers. Obviously some had more talents than others because out of the 12, only a few were prominent in speaking. God will utilise whatever natural abilities we have to further the good news of his kingdom.

All of Jehovah's Witnesses are students of God's word. We all train to be preachers and teachers, but you will find no diplomas hanging on our walls.....there were none on the walls of the apostles either. Jesus put no store in the higher learning of the Pharisees and purposely chose humble "uneducated" men to bear his message to the world.

And what is the truth about the JW organization? What was the truth about Jesus in the first century? Did anyone care to know, or were they happy to listen to his enemies discredit him and assassinate his character? We expect what is dished up about us....(John 15:18-21) If people said good things about us we would think we were doing something wrong.

Some walked away from the organization when they found themselves chafing under the Bible principles that all of JW's live by. Some were disfellowshipped for wrong conduct and became disgruntled. Others wanted to dictate changes in our beliefs and left because they couldn't get their way. Whatever reason is between them and God. Like I said...one side of a story is no story at all. Just ask how many innocent men there are behind bars. You have no way to verify any of their stories. And if you have ever been on the opposing side of an "ex" you will know how nasty it can get. They will paint you in the worst possible light. Let them.

If that will be the case, then you did not have a freedom to study scriptures by your own, but being dependent on the source given by Watchtower?

This argument makes me smile. What makes you think that the first Christians were free to make up their own minds about the scriptures? They had one source of information and one only. Anyone who tried to introduce their own ideas was excommunicated.

2 Pet 8-11...."Look out for yourselves, so that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward. Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."

There is no room for independent thinking.....that is the lure satan used to deceive the woman. We accept that what we are taught is the truth from the ones appointed as "the faithful and wise slave". Since Jesus appointed them, we follow their teachings. (Matt 24:45; Heb 13:7, 17)
No one is forced to believe what we believe, nor are they forced to remain in our ranks against their will. If you don't want to abide by the rules we follow, then don't become a JW in the first place. It's that simple. If you break the rules and want to cause trouble in our ranks...you will be expelled, just as Paul said in 1 Cor 5:9-13.

Those who wanted to worship Jehovah in the days of ancient Israel, had to come into Jehovah's nation...they had to live and worship as Jews. No one was free to introduce their own ideas into God's worship. When Jews came to accept Jesus as Messiah, they had to leave their old way of worship with its sacrifices and temple and priesthood, and adopt the new way with Christ as leader. They were not free to bring their own ideas with them either. They did not dictate to the apostles about what to teach. There was "one Lord, one faith, one baptism". That is the way it is with us.

The case of the first Christians differed with our current situation except for the bereans who examine and studied well if Paul’s saying is true. Do you mean that JW members had no freedom to examine the Scriptures and dependent to JW organization/Watchtower?

Paul at Berea

10. And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.

11. Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so

Thanks

 

[JFish123]

Up late and thought I'd check out the ole meme generator. Btw, it's ok if people have me on ignore. I survived being on ignore throughout High school lol

 

[katiemygirl]

What is the purpose of Gods kingdom?
Jesus preached about everlasting life. He told the criminal who was hung beside him "you will be with me in paradise" at luke 23:43
Im sorry Kate but everlasting life in a paradise earth was preached by Jesus.

Where in the Scriptures did Jesus, or anyone ever use the term "paradise earth?" NEVER!
Watchtower strings verses together and then creates a doctrine from them.

Luke 23:43
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth

Luke 23:43 + Matthew 5:5 does not equal paradise earth.

You asked what is the purpose of the kingdom.

The kingdom is a spiritual realm of fellowship with God. Christ is King and ruler. The citizens of the kingdom are the saved, the called out, those who are ruling and reigning with Christ through the truth of the gospel they proclaim to the whole world. The purpose of the kingdom is to be a beacon of light to the world, to make God’s wisdom known.

Now it's your turn Pegg. Tell me what the purpose of the kingdom is.

And while you are at it, please give me an example from Scripture of Watchtower gospel being preached.

"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind.That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel" or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914." (Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17)

 

[Pegg]

Where in the Scriptures did Jesus, or anyone ever use the term "paradise earth?" NEVER!
Watchtower strings verses together and then creates a doctrine from them.

Luke 23:43
And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth

Luke 23:43 + Matthew 5:5 does not equal paradise earth.

Think back to Jehovah's original purpose for mankind. Where did Adam and Eve live? Genesis 2:15-17
What were their prospects and what assignment did Jehovah give to them?


[/QUOTE]

You asked what is the purpose of the kingdom.

The kingdom is a spiritual realm of fellowship with God. Christ is King and ruler. The citizens of the kingdom are the saved, the called out, those who are ruling and reigning with Christ through the truth of the gospel they proclaim to the whole world. The purpose of the kingdom is to be a beacon of light to the world, to make God’s wisdom known.
Now it's your turn Pegg. Tell me what the purpose of the kingdom is.

And while you are at it, please give me an example from Scripture of Watchtower gospel being preached.

Daniel 2:44
What will the Kingdom of God break into pieces? and why?

 

[savagewind]

Think back to Jehovah's original purpose for mankind. Where did Adam and Eve live? Genesis 2:15-17
What were their prospects and what assignment did Jehovah give to them?

Daniel 2:44
What will the Kingdom of God break into pieces? and why?

I think we should talk about Daniel 2:44. It might mean that all the world's kingdoms are for breaking God's kingdom. Look at the original please and tell me it CAN'T mean that and why can't it.

Tell me what kingdom of man is for God's Kingdom. Please tell me which one of Earth's kingdoms has NOT crowded out God's Kingdom. תַּדִּ֤ק

 

[savagewind]

Some people say that The Bible can be believed because it has survived many attempts to destroy it with its people. So why not apply that to God's Kingdom? Daniel 2:44
Daniel 2:44 Hebrew Text Analysis