JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[Katzpur]

I agree with that, but what is a Mormon?

A Mormon is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. End of story -- at least on this thread.

 

[Katzpur]

Yes to an extent--Jesus is the head of his congregation. Many are claiming that Jesus is the head of their congregation, But do they actually teach what he actually taught?

Well, I'm sure they all believe they do. I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of them are sincere in wanting to teach what is right and true. I suppose that sooner or later, we'll all find out which one He actually claims as His Church. Perhaps just as important a question is "What will happen to those who got some of the doctrines wrong? Will they be cast into hell to burn in fiery torment forever? Will they simply be 'extinguished'? Or will God be merciful to some extent?"

 

[Wharton]

So Mary gave birth to Jesus and helped raise him. That's all she did. She's not co redeemer or anything though.

As I stated earlier, current Protestants kick Mary to the curb. The Reformers never did anything like that.

So she wasn't actively involved in his life? In his ministry? In his death? In his resurrection? As I stated earlier, that's Mary's supplied humanity hanging on the cross. She's standing there offering her son to the Father.

 

[Pegg]

Best you head off to the Kingdom Hall for instruction from an elder. BTW, I guess Paul is saying Jesus wasn't really Jewish then? And what is Jesus offering at the Last Supper? Psst, the same items as Melchizadek

Here's your NWT:

11 If, then, perfection was attainable through the Levitical priesthood+ (for it was a feature of the Law that was given to the people), what further need would there be for another priest to arise who is said to be in the manner of Mel·chiz′e·dek+ and not in the manner of Aaron? 12 For since the priesthood is being changed, it becomes necessary to change the Law as well.+ 13 For the man about whom these things are said came from another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar.+ 14 For it is clear that our Lord has descended from Judah,+ yet Moses said nothing about priests coming from that tribe. 15 And this becomes even clearer when another priest+ arises who is like Mel·chiz′e·dek,+ 16 who has become such, not by the legal requirement that depends on fleshly descent, but by the power of an indestructible life.+ 17 For it is said in witness of him: “You are a priest forever in the manner of Mel·chiz′e·dek.”+

you've lost me. I dont know where you've taken the topic???

Im not sure what point you are trying to make???

 

[Pegg]

Pegg, the quote says Jesus is the mediator ONLY FOR ANOINTED CHRISTIANS.

Yet, you said in your earlier post that the 144,000 don't need a mediator. You seem confused.

"So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the "mediator" only for anointed Christians."
Watchtower 1979 Apr 1 p.31

It is repeated again. JESUS CHRIST IS NOT THE MEDIATOR BETWEEN JEHOVAH GOD AND ALL MANKIND. HIS MEDIATORSHIP IS LIMITED TO ONLY 144,000.

"Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members."Worldwide Security Under the "Prince of Peace"(1986) pp.10-11

Are you a member of ALL MANKIND? The quote above specifically says Jesus is NOT mediator between God and all mankind.

The quote says Jesus' mediatorship is LIMITED to ONLY 144,000. What do the words LIMITED and ONLY mean to you?

You are cherry picking what I said and Your context seems to change from sentence to sentence.. Jesus mediates the new covenant and those chosen to be apart of it...initially that was the apostles to whom he said 'I make a covenant with you for a kingdom' He mediates for them while they are still imperfect and in the flesh, but once they have died and been ressurected, they are 'spotless' of all sin and therefore can take their place as members of the heavenly kingdom in the presence of God. Do the holy angels need a mediator? No, Why? because only sinners need a mediator. The purpose of the new covenant is ultimately for the saving of all mankind....so in that way, Jesus is still a mediator between us and God...it is only through Jesus that we can have a good standing with God. The articles you are quoting are speaking of the 'New Covenant' which is only between Jesus and his 144000 who will join him in heaven. We are not all members of that covenant.

Here: WT 2008 12/15 p13-15

13 What does Jesus’ role as Mediator involve? Well, Jehovah applies the value of Jesus’ blood to those being brought into the new covenant. In this way, Jehovah legally credits them with righteousness. (Rom. 3:24; Heb. 9:15) God can then take them into the new covenant with the prospect of their becoming heavenly king-priests! As their Mediator,Jesus assists them in maintaining a clean standing before God.—Heb. 2:16.

14 What about those who are not in the new covenant, those who hope to live forever on earth, not in heaven? While not participants in the new covenant, these are beneficiaries of it. They receive forgiveness of their sins and are declared righteous as God’s friends. (Jas. 2:23; 1 John 2:1, 2) Whether we have a heavenly hope or an earthly hope, each one of us has good reason to appreciate Jesus’ role as the Mediator of the new covenant.
​

 

[Pegg]

Ah no. The idea was made up by the Jews. Jesus used that system. He waited until he was 30 years old as required. Then chose his talmidim. He was called rabbi/teacher because he used that system. So you really think that he abandoned the Jewish teaching method? Do you really think that the apostles would abandon the method Jesus taught them with? Nah. It's biblical.

I'll help you along so you can see that the GB is neither fit to lead or teach and that would include most Protestant teachers. They have no semikhah.

According to the Hebrew Bible, Moses ordained Joshua through semikhah. (Num 27:15–23, Deut 34:9). Moses also ordained the 70 elders (Num 11:16–25). The elders later ordained their successors in this way. Their successors in turn ordained others. This chain of hands-on semikhah continued through the time of the Second Temple, to an undetermined time.[original research?][citation needed]

Traditionally Moses is also assumed to be the "first rabbi" of the Children of Israel. He is still known to most Jews as Moshe Rabbeinu ("Moses our Teacher"). Moses was also a prophet, and it is a fundamental Jewish belief that he was the greatest of all the Hebrew Bible's prophets. Moses passed his leadership on to Joshua as commanded by God in the Book of Numbers where the subject of semikhah ("laying [of hands]" or "ordination") is first mentioned in the Torah:

i had to travel back to try and work out how we got to Melchizedek.

So in terms of 'apostolic succession', you believe it is biblical because Moses had a successor and also appointed 70 elders and they in turn appointed successors after them.

Yet Melchizedek had no predecessor nor any successors....and Jesus is to come in the same manner as him. Dont you think it implies that the 'semikhah' would come to its end with Jesus in that case? And if you believe that Melchizedek had no predecessors or successors, then Jesus 12 apostles were not sucessors of Jesus.
If he is the Messiah, he needs no successors because the prophet Daniel said of the Messiah Dan 7:14 And to him there were given rulership+ and dignity+ and kingdom,*+ that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.+ His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.

No one will take over the rulership from Jesus...not on earth nor in heaven. And this is why the Apostles instructions were for older men to be appointed to serve as shephards of the congregations....there was never supposed to be one person as the ruler of the congregation or head of the church.

 

[Wharton]

i had to travel back to try and work out how we got to Melchizedek.

So in terms of 'apostolic succession', you believe it is biblical because Moses had a successor and also appointed 70 elders and they in turn appointed successors after them.

Yet Melchizedek had no predecessor nor any successors....and Jesus is to come in the same manner as him. Dont you think it implies that the 'semikhah' would come to its end with Jesus in that case? And if you believe that Melchizedek had no predecessors or successors, then Jesus 12 apostles were not sucessors of Jesus.
If he is the Messiah, he needs no successors because the prophet Daniel said of the Messiah Dan 7:14 And to him there were given rulership+ and dignity+ and kingdom,*+ that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.+ His rulership is an indefinitely lasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom one that will not be brought to ruin.

The priesthood of Jesus comes from Melchizedek. If Jesus didn't plan on successors, there would have been no apostles.

Let me help you out about talmidim/apostles

Yeshua's Talmidim
Talmidim In Ancient Times
It is a common belief among many Christians that Yeshua was the first man in history to gather talmidim (disciples) around him. Is this assumption correct?

No! Hebrew history shows that Yeshua was by no means the first rabbi to gather talmidim . In fact long before the days of Yeshua, all the great sages of Jewish history had their own talmidim.

The Hebrew term talmid literally means student, its plural being talmidim. The responsibility of each talmid was to learn everything that his rabbi (lit. meaning - revered one or master) would teach. They learned to eat the same foods as their rabbi. They learned to celebrate the Shabbat the way their rabbi did and to perform tzedakah (righteousness or charity) as he taught. They even learned to pray and fast along with their rabbi. They learned how to keep the mitzvot (commandments) of Adonai. The talmidim followed their rabbi everywhere he went reflecting every aspect of his life.

A talmid became a living reflection of his rabbi. Once fully trained, some talmidim would in turn become rabbis to the next generation, gathering around them talmidim of their own . In this way the traditions and customs of Israel were handed down from one generation to the next. A practice that dated all the way back to the giving of Torah at Mt. Sinai. We see in Scripture, that even Moshe (Moses) passed on all he received from God, to his talmid -Y'hohsua (Joshua).

AKA Apostolic Succession

 

[kjw47]

Well, I'm sure they all believe they do. I am willing to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of them are sincere in wanting to teach what is right and true. I suppose that sooner or later, we'll all find out which one He actually claims as His Church. Perhaps just as important a question is "What will happen to those who got some of the doctrines wrong? Will they be cast into hell to burn in fiery torment forever? Will they simply be 'extinguished'? Or will God be merciful to some extent?"

Gods word answers------ Jesus said-- those who live to do the Fathers will, are the ones who will enter his kingdom-Matt 7:21)--this is the bottom line reality of the Fathers will--John 4:22-24.
You see according to Daniel 12:4--truth is here in the last days in abundance.
I have shared 6 important truths from Jesus in many different sights like this. Every Trinitarian rejected them, because they are not taught them, even though every one of them is in their bible to. it is sad.

 

[katiemygirl]

Do you even know what the rosary is about or do you just jump to conclusions.

I know what it's about.

 

[katiemygirl]

Non-Christians do that now and in the past so using your logic, there was no need for Jesus. He should have stayed in heaven

What in the world are you talking about?

 

[Wharton]

I know what it's about.

So tell us.

 

[Wharton]

What in the world are you talking about?

They (non-Christians) also offer spiritual sacrifices/prayers,etc. to God. Yours are no better/different than theirs. They have no value to the infinite God. If you think they do, tell us why.

 

[Pegg]

The priesthood of Jesus comes from Melchizedek. If Jesus didn't plan on successors, there would have been no apostles.

Let me help you out about talmidim/apostles

Yeshua's Talmidim
Talmidim In Ancient Times
It is a common belief among many Christians that Yeshua was the first man in history to gather talmidim (disciples) around him. Is this assumption correct?

No! Hebrew history shows that Yeshua was by no means the first rabbi to gather talmidim . In fact long before the days of Yeshua, all the great sages of Jewish history had their own talmidim.

The Hebrew term talmid literally means student, its plural being talmidim. The responsibility of each talmid was to learn everything that his rabbi (lit. meaning - revered one or master) would teach. They learned to eat the same foods as their rabbi. They learned to celebrate the Shabbat the way their rabbi did and to perform tzedakah (righteousness or charity) as he taught. They even learned to pray and fast along with their rabbi. They learned how to keep the mitzvot (commandments) of Adonai. The talmidim followed their rabbi everywhere he went reflecting every aspect of his life.

A talmid became a living reflection of his rabbi. Once fully trained, some talmidim would in turn become rabbis to the next generation, gathering around them talmidim of their own . In this way the traditions and customs of Israel were handed down from one generation to the next. A practice that dated all the way back to the giving of Torah at Mt. Sinai. We see in Scripture, that even Moshe (Moses) passed on all he received from God, to his talmid -Y'hohsua (Joshua).

AKA Apostolic Succession

No successors and no predecessors. That was the manner of Melchizadek. he wasnt even Jewish. All Jews come from Abraham.... but Melchizadek was a fully grown man living in the time of Abraham...he is not one of Abrahams sons. So he is not Jewish and nor is the Messiah.

The apostles were not successors of the Messiah. No one is... the messiah is ruler forever.

Christians were warned about Judaizing Christianity.

 

[Wharton]

And this is why the Apostles instructions were for older men to be appointed to serve as shephards of the congregations

Wow. What did you just describe here?

 

[Pegg]

That's not what I'm implying. Without Mary bearing Jesus, Paul wouldn't be writing that verse as there would be no Jesus and Paul would still be a Jew.

if it wasnt Mary, it would have been another woman.

Far too much emphasis is placed on Mary...she is not the queen of heaven or mother of God. She was a humble and righteous jewish girl who was selected to bring the Messiah into the world.

elevating her to someone we should pray too is idolatry.

 

[Pegg]

Wow. What did you just describe here?

its not a succession.

No one takes the place of the Messiah.

 

[Wharton]

No successors and no predecessors. That was the manner of Melchizadek. he wasnt even Jewish. All Jews come from Abraham.... but Melchizadek was a fully grown man living in the time of Abraham...he is not one of Abrahams sons. So he is not Jewish and nor is the Messiah.

The apostles were not successors of the Messiah. No one is... the messiah is ruler forever.

Christians were warned about Judaizing Christianity.

Well, I guess you better argue with Paul about that, not me. The apostles were not successors of Jesus? Best you read Acts. Who do the people listen to the teachings of? NOT Jesus. But the apostles. Do you see a teaching succession yet? If you don't, read Acts again and again until it sinks in.

 

[Wharton]

if it wasnt Mary, it would have been another woman.

How do you know that?

 

[Wharton]

...she is not the queen of heaven or mother of God.

Every Protestant Reformer disagrees with you.

 

[Wharton]

No one takes the place of the Messiah.

The GB does. Want to keep on going with this?