JW's Preach A Different Gospel

[Yoshua]

Was there a purpose to this at all? If you have read anything from JW's on this forum you would know that we have progressed from our early ideas about many things. This is all ancient history to us. We do not see these early writings as anything but the stirrings of the spirit in beginning to unravel the truth of God's word. There was much to learn.

Ask about what we believe now and we will tell you. The Watchtower is like our newspaper, it is not a substitute for scripture. Do you read old newspapers and quote something that was said 80 odd years ago as if it is still relevant today?
Progressive understanding of God's word is expected, the closer we get to Jehovah's day of judgment. We know this. (Prov 4:18) The governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been providing us with things to chew over for a 100 years or more. We have always found the diet interesting and varied. Sometimes the things served were not quite cooked, but we just waited for the clarification that soon followed.

If you have something you wish to discuss please have the courtesy to speak to us without the use of cheap shots or cut and pastes from anti-JW sites. There are enough lazy people posting other people's garbage as it is. I am happy to answer any questions you have but I will not respond to these kinds of posts in the future.

Hi Jay,

The Holy Bible is also considered a history since 2,000 years ago. I just wonder why prophecies of Russell and the Watchtower specified the 2nd coming of Christ (years), Return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the end of kingdom, the Armageddon........and failed to commence. The Old Testament prophecies concerning Jesus Christ are already fulfilled, others are yet to commence.

Of course, those prophecies are relevant because those are connected from the Watchtower Society. Actually, there are more succeeding prophecies in the 20th century. If those are cheap and untrue, then does it mean that those are fabricated and not authentic prophecies? Are members take the attempt to validate those numerous prophecies if they are really prophesied.

Thanks

 

[katiemygirl]

'New Covenant'

Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant which is between himself and those who will be in heaven as kings and priests.

Watchtower claims that Jesus is mediator for the anointed ONLY and NOT for all mankind.

Watchtower also claims that Jesus' mediatorship extends outward to the rank and file JW's through the Governing Body.

Where is that in the Scriptures, Pegg?

 

[Pegg]

Watchtower claims that Jesus is mediator for the anointed ONLY and NOT for all mankind.

Watchtower also claims that Jesus' mediatorship extends outward to the rank and file JW's through the Governing Body.

Where is that in the Scriptures, Pegg?

Ok, you can believe however you like.

 

[JayJayDee]

Hi Jay,

The scripture of the Holy Bible is last 2,000 years ago is much more a history. What I did not understand is why those prophecies from Russell and the Watchtower clearly specified the year of the 2nd coming of Christ, Return of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the end of kingdom, the Armageddon........and failed to commenced. The Old Testament prophecies concerning Jesus Christ are already fulfilled. Others are yet to commenced because they are sourced from the scriptures from God.

Of course, those prophecies are relevant because those are connected from the Watchtower Society. Actually, there are more succeeding prophecies in the 20th century. If those are cheap and untrue, then does it mean that those are fabricated and not authentic prophecies? Then, are members take the attempt to validate those numerous prophecies if those are issued and true words of the Watchtower and Russell?

Thanks

Am I wrong to assume that English is not your first language? I am having difficulty with your phrasing, so I am sorry but I have no idea what your point was in all of that.

Why do you place such an emphasis on Russell when we do not? We understand and appreciate his efforts in the bog picture, but he is not our "founder". We believe that Russell and his fellow Bible Students were awakened to the truth by Jesus. It was foretold in Daniel that in "the time of the end" a 'cleansing and refining' would begin among God's people. (Dan 12:9, 10)
We believe that Russell and his companions were the beginning of that cleansing and refining....but certainly not the end.

We place no emphasis on the efforts of just one man. Russell was not a prophet and we do not consider him as such.

Did you not understand a thing I said? I have tried to explain it to you in detail when addressing your points.

 

[katiemygirl]

Ok, you can believe however you like.

You've proven my point by not providing a Scripture which supports your teaching that Jesus' mediatorship extends outward to YOU through the Governing Body.

Not being able to support your doctrine with Scripture should be enough to cause you to run as fast and far from the Watchtower Organization as you can.

Your Governing Body has set themselves up as mediators in place of Christ.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves" (Matthew 7:15).

 

[Pegg]

You've proven my point by not providing a Scripture which supports your teaching that Jesus' mediatorship extends outward to YOU through the Governing Body.

Not being able to support your doctrine with Scripture should be enough to cause you to run as fast and far from the Watchtower Organization as you can.

Your Governing Body has set themselves up as mediators in place of Christ.

.

You took the quote from here:

Questions From Readers
● Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?
The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16)

At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.”
So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.

The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge.
For more detailed information, see Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under “Mediator”; also God’s “Eternal Purpose” Now Triumphing for Man’s Good, page 160, paragraph 10; also The Watchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading “Leading the Way to a New Covenant”; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading “The New Covenant.”​

Its always good to read the full context of what you are disputing.

So you disagree with the statement "Christ is only mediator for the anointed"
And I guess it really depends on whether you believe every christian is going to join Christ in heaven to rule over mankind as a judge and king.

Seeing we dont believe all christians will be going to heaven, we dont see how we are all part of the New Covenant that Christ instituted with his apostles which would see them ruling as kings and priests over mankind.

So the reasonable conclusion is that the few references to Christ as Mediator refers to those in that New Covenant. Thats makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Muffled]

The JW's preach a different gospel.
"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel" or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914." (Watchtower, May 1, 1981, p. 17)

I believe a lot of what is called gospel is not. I believe the JW's preach the gospel but not completely correctly.

 

[Muffled]

THE REAL GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST-

PETER PREACHED THE GOOD NEWS

Acts 2
22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. 23 This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. 24 But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

THE RESPONSE OF THE PEOPLE TO THE GOOD NEWS

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

PETER'S ANSWER TO THE PEOPLE

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

PETER WARNS AND PLEADS WITH THE PEOPLE

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”

THE RESULT OF THE GOOD NEWS BEING PREACHED

41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

THE JW'S FALSE GOSPEL

"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during all the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel," or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914."

WHICH GOSPEL DO YOU PREACH, PETER'S OR THE JW'S?

I believe Peter's gospel is Peter's gospel. I have seen no evidence that another gospel is preached by the JW's. I believe the preaching of Peter happened as He was full of the Holy Spirit so I would consider it a God inspired gospel.

 

[katiemygirl]

You took the quote from here:

Questions From Readers
● Is Jesus the “mediator” only for anointed Christians?
The term “mediator” occurs just six times in the Christian Greek Scriptures and Scripturally is always used regarding a formal covenant.
Moses was the “mediator” of the Law covenant made between God and the nation of Israel. (Gal. 3:19, 20) Christ, though, is the “mediator of a new covenant” between Jehovah and spiritual Israel, the “Israel of God” that will serve as kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Heb. 8:6; 9:15; 12:24; Gal. 6:16)

At a time when God was selecting those to be taken into that new covenant, the apostle Paul wrote that Christ was the “one mediator between God and men.” (1 Tim. 2:5) Reasonably Paul was here using the word “mediator” in the same way he did the other five times, which occurred before the writing of 1 Timothy 2:5, referring to those then being taken into the new covenant for which Christ is “mediator.”
So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.

The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant. During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge.
For more detailed information, see Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 1129 and 1130 under “Mediator”; also God’s “Eternal Purpose” Now Triumphing for Man’s Good, page 160, paragraph 10; also The Watchtower issues of February 15, 1966, pages 105 through 123; November 15, 1972, pages 685 and 686, under the subheading “Leading the Way to a New Covenant”; and April 1, 1973, pages 198 and 199, under the subheading “The New Covenant.”​

Its always good to read the full context of what you are disputing.

So you disagree with the statement "Christ is only mediator for the anointed"
And I guess it really depends on whether you believe every christian is going to join Christ in heaven to rule over mankind as a judge and king.

Seeing we dont believe all christians will be going to heaven, we dont see how we are all part of the New Covenant that Christ instituted with his apostles which would see them ruling as kings and priests over mankind.

So the reasonable conclusion is that the few references to Christ as Mediator refers to those in that New Covenant. Thats makes perfect sense to me.

Would you please provide the Scripture which says that by associating with the little flock you come under the benefits of Jesus' mediatorship?

The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. The “great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in that new covenant. However, by their associating with the “little flock” of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant.During the millennium Jesus Christ will be their king, high priest and judge.

You said, "So you disagree with the statement 'Christ is only mediator for the anointed'.

That's correct. I disagree with Watchtower's and your assertion. The Scripture says that Jesus is mediator for mankind.

The Scripture DOES NOT say Jesus is mediator for the anointed ONLY.

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, (1 Tim. 2:5)

 

[Muffled]

Both. All that was posted by kmg is part of the good news....but there is not one mention of "the kingdom" in those verses.
Christianity had to first convince the Jews and later, the Gentiles, about Jesus as the Christ. So pointing out the reasons for his death and resurrection were a vital part of that message. But the kingdom was yet future, so it is still a vital part of the good news....especially in our day when the kingdom is about to "come".

How many in Christendom who pray the Lord's Prayer in church, know how and when the kingdom "comes"? And how God's will is "done on earth as it is in heaven"?

If Jesus told us to 'preach the good news of the kingdom'....then what the kingdom is, is what needs to be understood as part of the fact that Jesus came to earth to give his life for us in the first place.

When he said to "seek first the kingdom and (God's) righteousness" (Matt 6:33)......then what is this "kingdom" that we seek?....and what is the good news about it?

If Christians do not know what the kingdom is, then they cannot preach about it. Knowledge of the kingdom is but one of the beliefs that separates JW's from Christendom.

I believe this to be incorrect. The kingdom of God is already here spiritually but not as a physical entity. The physical entity is yet to come.

I believe JW's hold many false beliefs that separate them from other groups but I don't believe lack of knowledge is the problem.

 

[katiemygirl]

I believe this to be incorrect. The kingdom of God is already here spiritually but not as a physical entity. The physical entity is yet to come.

I believe JW's hold many false beliefs that separate them from other groups but I don't believe lack of knowledge is the problem.

Most christians consider them a cult. They don't lack knowledge. They lack truth.

I'm glad you recognize the kingdom is here spiritually.

 

[katiemygirl]

I believe Peter's gospel is Peter's gospel. I have seen no evidence that another gospel is preached by the JW's. I believe the preaching of Peter happened as He was full of the Holy Spirit so I would consider it a God inspired gospel.

The JW gospel is that Jesus came in 1914. Is that the gospel Peter, Paul or any others preached in the NT? If not, then JW's preach another gospel.

 

[katiemygirl]

I believe a lot of what is called gospel is not. I believe the JW's preach the gospel but not completely correctly.

So what is the correct gospel?

 

[katiemygirl]

I believe Peter's gospel is Peter's gospel. I have seen no evidence that another gospel is preached by the JW's. I believe the preaching of Peter happened as He was full of the Holy Spirit so I would consider it a God inspired gospel.

Everything we read in the NT was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Peter's gospel was inspired. Shouldn't we preach the same gospel?

 

[Muffled]

The JW gospel is that Jesus came in 1914. Is that the gospel Peter, Paul or any others preached in the NT? If not, then JW's preach another gospel.

I don't believe it is a gospel that they preach. So it is not another gospel. I believe they are quite incorrect about many things but I wouldn't categorize them as gospels. So where are you going with this? Now if you were to prove that the belief is an abnegation of Peter's gospel or replaces it then I uderstand but trying to say it is another gospel doesn't make sense to me but maybe you can explain it better.

 

[Muffled]

So what is the correct gospel?

I believe all the gospels espoused in the Bible are correct.

 

[Muffled]

Everything we read in the NT was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Peter's gospel was inspired. Shouldn't we preach the same gospel?

I beleive I preach whatever Jesus gives me to preach. I believe trying to do cookie cutter preaching is less effective.

 

[katiemygirl]

I don't believe in one gospel, the gospel meaning good news is whatever gospel, as long as it has good news, as long as it brings you to God. Fighting over who has the true gospel is nothing more than childishness, and only takes you away from God, so stop it !.

So did Jesus lie when He said,

"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

There can be only ONE gospel of Jesus Christ, and for those who truly seek to know what His gospel is will find it written in the inspired word of God, and not in Watchtower publications (or any others, for that matter).

 

[katiemygirl]

I believe all the gospels espoused in the Bible are correct.

Me too!

So what is the gospel in a nutshell? Let's say you had two minutes to preach the gospel to me. What would you say? I will tell you what I would say after you answer.

 

[katiemygirl]

I beleive I preach whatever Jesus gives me to preach. I believe trying to do cookie cutter preaching is less effective.

I agree with you as long as your message is not different from the gospel preachers in the NT. No doubt, we each use different approaches, and rightfully so. One thing I love about Jesus' preaching (others too) is that He met all people where they were.