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//nowhere does it say, Jesus raised himself//
I used the ' funny ' appropriately , because after I made a comment ( jokingly) about how the Jw s get round theses verses I genuinely laughed out loud, because your answer was the same.
You started off by saying, you believe that Jesus was raised with the same body. Isn't that true?
You have not shown that. You just claimed it.
The Bible does not say Jesus used different bodies, is true, but it does say he was raised spirit, and it doesn't say he was raised in the same body either.
No scripture says Jesus raised himself.
What I said was serious. It was not a joke, nor meant to be.
I like that one Or, is that not dramatic enough? //No scripture says Jesus raised himself// But we have a verse prior to the cross that literally says he will raise himself . Jesus own words ,not mine . You can choose to ignore that verse as if God didn't inspire it ,but I all Scripture is God breathed. Nothing is said for the sake of it .You started off by saying, you believe that Jesus was raised with the same body. Isn't that true?
You said we teach something I never heard taught by JWs, and you said that these are "just a few of their beliefs that don't line up with the bible."
So, we did not start with any particular scripture. You picked one, which you claim supports your belief.
I chose several. So to claim that your chosen scripture alone is what we must only look at, is... what would you call that?
I don't know what to call it, but it can't be good.
The other thing is, you are well aware, I was hoping you were, at least, that all scripture is inspired of God, and beneficial for setting things straight. Which means we must look at the scriptures to understand what is being taught.
One who isn't interested in doing so, is not serious about the Bible. They are also unreasonable. Would you agree?
For example, say someone lust took Matthew 18:8, 9
8 If, then, your hand or your foot makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or lame than to be thrown with two hands or two feet into the everlasting fire. 9 Also, if your eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. It is better for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Gehenna.
...and says, I am sticking to this scripture. Jesus said cut your hand off, and tear out your eye.
That person is unreasonable and not worth our time, because they are not serious about the Bible.
Is this not the position you are taking?
The scriptures refute your claims, by showing that the seed gets a new body. It is never the same as what is sown, and dies.
The body must die, the person is raised a new body.
That's how it works.
The scriptures also show that Jesus did not appear in the same body.
When Mary saw him, up close and personal, she did not recognize him.
When she grabbed hold of him, there is no indication in scripture to suggest that his body was shredded or pierced.
Likewise, on the beach; On the road to Jerusalem; In the locked room; He was not recognized by any piercing.
Only doubtful Thomas required seeing piercings, and the next time Jesus appeared, piercings were seen.
The other thing is, the scriptures say Jesus was a human, and he died a human - put to death in the flesh, made alive in the spirit.
All these are in harmony with scripture, and are in agreement with what JWs teach.
What Jesus said, has nothing to do with what we believe, does it. It is a matter of what the Bible says happened, or what the Bible says is the case,
Remember when Jesus said the following ...
(John 6:51-66)53 So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when your forefathers ate and yet died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said these things as he was teaching in a synagogue in Capernaum.51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
[What was the response?]
60 When they heard this, many of his disciples said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble you? 62 What, therefore, if you should see the Son of man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning those who did not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 Because of this, many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.
Jesus never explained to his enemies, or those with one foot in and one foot out, what he meant, because it tested their motive, or genuineness.
Right now, your genuineness is under test.
Will you keep holding what Jesus said to mean what you want it to mean even when what you think it meant disagrees with scripture?
That's up to you. The disciples who left, went away thinking that Jesus wanted them to eat him.
Jesus did not, and could not raise himself, as he was powerless to do so, in death.
Just as eating his literal flesh would not have granted anyone life. Nor cutting off your literal hand.
You have not shown that. You just claimed it.
Right. No verse says the body was hidden by God. I don't need to go there.
The Bible does not say Jesus used different bodies, is true, but it does say he was raised spirit, and it doesn't say he was raised in the same body either.
No scripture says Jesus raised himself.
One should ignore such claims, as the scripture tell us in no uncertain terms, that God raised Jesus from the dead.
It also tells us that Jesus died, so he was not alive to do anything.
Which is in harmony with the scriptures, which describes death as a state of inactivity, and unconsciousness.
What I said was serious. It was not a joke, nor meant to be.
I don't mind if you find it funny, and by all means, I welcome your expressing it.
However, the RF rules consider using the funny rating on a post not meant to be funny, abusing it.
I'm just informing you, in case you don't know. I didn't know before either, but I found out.
If you want to lol, you can try this...
My point was the Author ( John ) inspired by God to write in a specific context ,at a specific time ,about specific things in context ,within the same timeline , the same theme of the entire book. All of what is Written has one interpretation. The one the Author intended. It makes sense to discover the who ,what ,when ,why and where of the book ,the chapter and the verse first ,then from that we press on with this in mind for each book as we go .You started off by saying, you believe that Jesus was raised with the same body. Isn't that true?
You said we teach something I never heard taught by JWs, and you said that these are "just a few of their beliefs that don't line up with the bible."
So, we did not start with any particular scripture. You picked one, which you claim supports your belief.
I chose several. So to claim that your chosen scripture alone is what we must only look at, is... what would you call that?
I don't know what to call it, but it can't be good.
The other thing is, you are well aware, I was hoping you were, at least, that all scripture is inspired of God, and beneficial for setting things straight. Which means we must look at the scriptures to understand what is being taught.
One who isn't interested in doing so, is not serious about the Bible. They are also unreasonable. Would you agree?
For example, say someone lust took Matthew 18:8, 9
8 If, then, your hand or your foot makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or lame than to be thrown with two hands or two feet into the everlasting fire. 9 Also, if your eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. It is better for you to enter one-eyed into life than to be thrown with two eyes into the fiery Gehenna.
...and says, I am sticking to this scripture. Jesus said cut your hand off, and tear out your eye.
That person is unreasonable and not worth our time, because they are not serious about the Bible.
Is this not the position you are taking?
The scriptures refute your claims, by showing that the seed gets a new body. It is never the same as what is sown, and dies.
The body must die, the person is raised a new body.
That's how it works.
The scriptures also show that Jesus did not appear in the same body.
When Mary saw him, up close and personal, she did not recognize him.
When she grabbed hold of him, there is no indication in scripture to suggest that his body was shredded or pierced.
Likewise, on the beach; On the road to Jerusalem; In the locked room; He was not recognized by any piercing.
Only doubtful Thomas required seeing piercings, and the next time Jesus appeared, piercings were seen.
The other thing is, the scriptures say Jesus was a human, and he died a human - put to death in the flesh, made alive in the spirit.
All these are in harmony with scripture, and are in agreement with what JWs teach.
What Jesus said, has nothing to do with what we believe, does it. It is a matter of what the Bible says happened, or what the Bible says is the case,
Remember when Jesus said the following ...
(John 6:51-66)53 So Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day; 55 for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when your forefathers ate and yet died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” 59 He said these things as he was teaching in a synagogue in Capernaum.51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” 52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying: “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
[What was the response?]
60 When they heard this, many of his disciples said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them: “Does this stumble you? 62 What, therefore, if you should see the Son of man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning those who did not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 Because of this, many of his disciples went off to the things behind and would no longer walk with him.
Jesus never explained to his enemies, or those with one foot in and one foot out, what he meant, because it tested their motive, or genuineness.
Right now, your genuineness is under test.
Will you keep holding what Jesus said to mean what you want it to mean even when what you think it meant disagrees with scripture?
That's up to you. The disciples who left, went away thinking that Jesus wanted them to eat him.
Jesus did not, and could not raise himself, as he was powerless to do so, in death.
Just as eating his literal flesh would not have granted anyone life. Nor cutting off your literal hand.
You have not shown that. You just claimed it.
Right. No verse says the body was hidden by God. I don't need to go there.
The Bible does not say Jesus used different bodies, is true, but it does say he was raised spirit, and it doesn't say he was raised in the same body either.
No scripture says Jesus raised himself.
One should ignore such claims, as the scripture tell us in no uncertain terms, that God raised Jesus from the dead.
It also tells us that Jesus died, so he was not alive to do anything.
Which is in harmony with the scriptures, which describes death as a state of inactivity, and unconsciousness.
What I said was serious. It was not a joke, nor meant to be.
I don't mind if you find it funny, and by all means, I welcome your expressing it.
However, the RF rules consider using the funny rating on a post not meant to be funny, abusing it.
I'm just informing you, in case you don't know. I didn't know before either, but I found out.
If you want to lol, you can try this...
................................
Why did Jesus say He would raise his body ? He would have been perfectly able to say 19¶Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will be raised up .
//Even noted trinitarian NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson tells us// Appeal to authorities aside .There is no need ,as were all looking at the same text , in English ( translated just fine )
Please explain why you say the verse says he will literally raise himself.
Not sure what you are trying to say here.
If when Jesus said " cut off your hand it it offends and such ..." and then was qualified with a " This he said speaking of such and such " You would have a point perhaps. As John 2 19 is qualified with "
//Please explain why you say the verse says he will literally raise himself.// Because that's exactly what he said. And that's exactly what the diciples heard him say and understood it that way . If your trying an explain these verses away as not being literal,id would ask, by what standard are you using to interpret any passage ? Because if these verse literally do not mean as they read ,then nothing in the bible can be understood plainly , with your approach .
You consider that a reasonable answer?
I could have just quoted the verses and said nothing . That should be enough. It literally, step ,by step says what it means. Jesus is undoubtedly saying the he will raise his body up in three days . You couldn't find a clearer verse if you tried .It even says how the diciples understood it . You have two things. The explanation and how it was understood . Its a dream text to be certain of .You consider that a reasonable answer?
What you just did, is basically admit that you decide what you want the text to mean, and whatever you think it means, it means, because Jesus would have said what you think he would have, if what you believe were not true.
I use the Bible.
Cut off your hand and throw it away from you, said Jesus. Why don't you quote that, and leave it?
Yes some call this ' harmonising ' its a wonderful approach which enables a person who is not following :
Okay. You take care... Unless... Is there another subject you wanted to discuss?