• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Kansas Ends Bad Economic News by Not Reporting It

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
The right-wing paradise that was supposed to happen in Kansas when taxes were cut is an utter failure. The response in Kansas is to hide the bad news emulating the examples of the failed communist countries.
...
A quick refresher: In 2010, Brownback, a U.S. senator, ran for governor on an economic platform created by the American Legislative Exchange Council, a conservative group that specializes in promoting draft legislation. He promised to slash taxes on business owners and lower personal income tax rates, unleashing an economic renaissance in Kansas.

In May 2012, he signed the bill into law. It initially lowered the top personal tax rate to 4.9 percent (it’s now 4.6 percent) from 6.45 percent, but most importantly, it eliminated income tax on profits for owners of limited liability companies, subchapter S corporations and sole proprietorships.

Give Brownback credit for passing the exact legislation he had promised.

The results, however, haven’t been very encouraging. Indeed, since the tax cuts were passed, almost nothing has gone as promised in Kansas. Revenue plunged and the state resorted to pulling money out of its rainy-day fund to plug the holes. A number of critical services, including for road maintenance and schools, were cut. The business climate has been poor, and the economy has lagged behind neighboring states as well as the rest of the country.
...
A summary of the Brownback record shows:
  • Kansas’ gross state product fell behind the six-state region and the nation for the third straight year. (Kansas’ gross state product grew at a faster rate when compared to the region and the nation in three of the five years before Brownback took office in 2011).
  • Private industry wages in Kansas grew at a slower pace last year than they did in the region and the U.S. -- as they did during the past five years.
  • The number of private business establishments in Kansas trailed both the region and the nation for the last year, again continuing a five-year trend.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-24/kansas-ends-bad-economic-news-by-not-reporting-it
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
They were either pandering or foolish in thinking that an infinitesimal state income tax cut would even affect the economy. A state income tax is typically dwarfed by local property taxes & federal income taxes.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
They were either pandering or foolish in thinking that an infinitesimal state income tax cut would even affect the economy. A state income tax is typically dwarfed by local property taxes & federal income taxes.
I vote for both. They swallowed ALEC's propaganda whole and wound up in a ditch.

I'll bet that no one involved will have the courage to say "we made a mistake" which is true for 99% of politicians and 99% of humanity for that matter.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I vote for both. They swallowed ALEC's propaganda whole and wound up in a ditch.
I'll bet that no one involved will have the courage to say "we made a mistake" which is true for 99% of politicians and 99% of humanity for that matter.
How do you know it was a mistake with that particular consequence?
Such a miniscule change in such a small tax would have commensurate effect.
Might as well attribute the economic decline to the introduction of the iphone 7.
Correlation is not causation.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
:facepalm: Kansas. Applied trickle-down economics in action. :facepalm:

Once again decreasing tax DOES NOT yield increased revenues. What a shocker!
Also, the government is NOT your enemy. Decreased tax revenues has led (for decades) to worse schools, worse roads and trains, poorer medical treatment, along with privatized and failing (for us the customers) health insurance, etc....etc...etc....
Although it is noteworthy that the military is not as significantly injured by Reaganomics as the rest of We the People.

Without infrastructure (which individual shop owners DID NOT BUILD), the shop owners (businesses) go away. SUPRISE!!
Wow! Nobody saw that coming.......oh wait...
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Harrumff!
Tell that to Californiastanian veterans who were forced to repay resigning bonuses (just because government screwed up) after serving for years,. Government is not to be trusted.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/us/national-guard-bonuses-california.html?_r=0
I'm an equal opportunity paranoid - I don't trust government. I don't trust business, especially big business, and of course I don't trust @Revoltingest . I don't go as far as this but I sure do understand the sentiment: There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee
 

buddhist

Well-Known Member
The right-wing paradise that was supposed to happen in Kansas when taxes were cut is an utter failure. The response in Kansas is to hide the bad news emulating the examples of the failed communist countries.
...
A quick refresher: In 2010, Brownback, a U.S. senator, ran for governor on an economic platform created by the American Legislative Exchange Council, a conservative group that specializes in promoting draft legislation. He promised to slash taxes on business owners and lower personal income tax rates, unleashing an economic renaissance in Kansas.

In May 2012, he signed the bill into law. It initially lowered the top personal tax rate to 4.9 percent (it’s now 4.6 percent) from 6.45 percent, but most importantly, it eliminated income tax on profits for owners of limited liability companies, subchapter S corporations and sole proprietorships.

Give Brownback credit for passing the exact legislation he had promised.

The results, however, haven’t been very encouraging. Indeed, since the tax cuts were passed, almost nothing has gone as promised in Kansas. Revenue plunged and the state resorted to pulling money out of its rainy-day fund to plug the holes. A number of critical services, including for road maintenance and schools, were cut. The business climate has been poor, and the economy has lagged behind neighboring states as well as the rest of the country.
...
A summary of the Brownback record shows:



    • Kansas’ gross state product fell behind the six-state region and the nation for the third straight year. (Kansas’ gross state product grew at a faster rate when compared to the region and the nation in three of the five years before Brownback took office in 2011).
    • Private industry wages in Kansas grew at a slower pace last year than they did in the region and the U.S. -- as they did during the past five years.
    • The number of private business establishments in Kansas trailed both the region and the nation for the last year, again continuing a five-year trend.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-10-24/kansas-ends-bad-economic-news-by-not-reporting-it
All of that actually sounds like good news to me.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
They were either pandering or foolish in thinking that an infinitesimal state income tax cut would even affect the economy. A state income tax is typically dwarfed by local property taxes & federal income taxes.
So your answer would be "Go bigger"?
Cut ALL the taxes?
Let big businesses do whatever the heck they feel like (squeeze the peasants for every penny)?
Deregulate companies completely?
Ignore pollution or any other "questionable business practices"?

Only then would we see the brilliant masterpiece that trickle-down economics could really offer the people?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So your answer would be "Go bigger"?
Cut ALL the taxes?
I don't presume to advise them what to do because I don't know their financial situation.
This misses the gist of my post, which is about small changes in tax rates having no
discernible effect on the economy. Why read more into it than that?
Let big businesses do whatever the heck they feel like (squeeze the peasants for every penny)?
Deregulate companies completely?
Ignore pollution or any other "questionable business practices"?
Those sound like terrible ideas.
Why suggest them?
Only then would we see the brilliant masterpiece that trickle-down economics could really offer the people?
You're baiting.
I'm not biting.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Aw shucks....reckon I'll cut the line then.
Dr.-Who.gif
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I don't presume to advise them what to do because I don't know their financial situation.
This misses the gist of my post, which is about small changes in tax rates having no
discernible effect on the economy. Why read more into it than that?
...
I will admit you are smarter than 99.65% of conservatives for realizing that rather than "trumpeting" that all tax cuts however small will lead into a capitalist paradise with plenty for all and the end of poverty. Given the lack of contrition on the part of those who believe that, I think they've not learned the lesson yet and will probably refuse to learn the lesson. I suspect that they will double down into the scenario @Daemon Sophic noted. You might avoid the bait but ALEC? I think they'll love the idea if they don't already.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I will admit you are smarter than 99.65% of conservatives for realizing that rather than "trumpeting" that all tax cuts however small will lead into a capitalist paradise with plenty for all and the end of poverty. Given the lack of contrition on the part of those who believe that, I think they've not learned the lesson yet and will probably refuse to learn the lesson. I suspect that they will double down into the scenario @Daemon Sophic noted. You might avoid the bait but ALEC? I think they'll love the idea if they don't already.
I differ from most (both Dem & Pub) by stressing the importance of a tax
structure which incentivizes productivity over one with merely lower rates.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm an equal opportunity paranoid - I don't trust government. I don't trust business, especially big business, and of course I don't trust @Revoltingest . I don't go as far as this but I sure do understand the sentiment: There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee

I like this post. But you left small business of the list. They are also untrustworthy, just less capable of causing the end of civilization.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I like this post. But you left small business of the list. They are also untrustworthy, just less capable of causing the end of civilization.
My experience dealing with small business is a LOT more positive than gigantic corporate bureaucracies.
 
Top