Karma and the Mandate of Heaven

[soulsurvivor]

They say, in China, whenever there are major natural disasters, the people would often ask 'What did the Emperor do this time?' (or so I have heard).

'It was also a common belief that natural disasters such as famine and flood were divine retributions bearing signs of Heaven's displeasure with the ruler, so there would often be revolts following major disasters as the people saw these calamities as signs that the Mandate of Heaven had been withdrawn.'

Being a Hindu I think of this as Karma caused by the local government actions rather than the 'Mandate of Heaven'.

I thought about this after reading this headline "Super typhoon Doksuri skips Taiwan and slams into China" . Compared to the Taiwan government, the Karma of the Chinese CCP is really bad because of the way they treat many of their own citizens. So if you follow, the Chinese belief above, it makes sense for the typhoon to avoid Taiwan and wreck China,

Getting closer to home, the recent extreme heatwave in the US pretty much avoided California (it was hot but not that bad) but hit the whole South starting with Arizona and then Texas all the way to Florida, Last year there were many climate events in Texas and Florida, like the freeze in Texas and hurricanes in Florida, California on the other hand was handed a gift - heavy rain that had never been seen before that wiped out the drought from many years and filled all the reservoirs.

The Southern states are the ones treating 'the least of these' very badly in the last few years. The 'least of these' are marginalized, oppressed, poor people, especially refugees. California has been much better for refugees and poor people. So it makes sense for natural disasters to hit those states with such meanspirited policies.

I expect this year's natural disasters to hit Texas and Florida much worse than California for the rest of the year and going forward.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Muffled]

They say, in China, whenever there are major natural disasters, the people would often ask 'What did the Emperor do this time?' (or so I have heard).

'It was also a common belief that natural disasters such as famine and flood were divine retributions bearing signs of Heaven's displeasure with the ruler, so there would often be revolts following major disasters as the people saw these calamities as signs that the Mandate of Heaven had been withdrawn.'

Being a Hindu I think of this as Karma caused by the local government actions rather than the 'Mandate of Heaven'.

I thought about this after reading this headline "Super typhoon Doksuri skips Taiwan and slams into China" . Compared to the Taiwan government, the Karma of the Chinese CCP is really bad because of the way they treat many of their own citizens. So if you follow, the Chinese belief above, it makes sense for the typhoon to avoid Taiwan and wreck China,

Getting closer to home, the recent extreme heatwave in the US pretty much avoided California (it was hot but not that bad) but hit the whole South starting with Arizona and then Texas all the way to Florida, Last year there were many climate events in Texas and Florida, like the freeze in Texas and hurricanes in Florida, California on the other hand was handed a gift - heavy rain that had never been seen before that wiped out the drought from many years and filled all the reservoirs.

The Southern states are the ones treating 'the least of these' very badly in the last few years. The 'least of these' are marginalized, oppressed, poor people, especially refugees. California has been much better for refugees and poor people. So it makes sense for natural disasters to hit those states with such meanspirited policies.

I expect this year's natural disasters to hit Texas and Florida much worse than California for the rest of the year and going forward.

What are your thoughts?

I believe unless God specifically said that He did it, that anything else is just speculation. I don't believe Karma has a brain or can do anything. I believe what is considered Karma is simply the judgment of God. Now instant karma is a different thing. If a person builds a defective dam then it is instant karma if the dam breaks.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I am sure your belief is much stronger than 8000 years of Indian tradition and even longer (maybe 12000 years) of Chinese tradition.

 

[Heyo]

They say, in China, whenever there are major natural disasters, the people would often ask 'What did the Emperor do this time?' (or so I have heard).

'It was also a common belief that natural disasters such as famine and flood were divine retributions bearing signs of Heaven's displeasure with the ruler, so there would often be revolts following major disasters as the people saw these calamities as signs that the Mandate of Heaven had been withdrawn.'

Being a Hindu I think of this as Karma caused by the local government actions rather than the 'Mandate of Heaven'.

I thought about this after reading this headline "Super typhoon Doksuri skips Taiwan and slams into China" . Compared to the Taiwan government, the Karma of the Chinese CCP is really bad because of the way they treat many of their own citizens. So if you follow, the Chinese belief above, it makes sense for the typhoon to avoid Taiwan and wreck China,

Getting closer to home, the recent extreme heatwave in the US pretty much avoided California (it was hot but not that bad) but hit the whole South starting with Arizona and then Texas all the way to Florida, Last year there were many climate events in Texas and Florida, like the freeze in Texas and hurricanes in Florida, California on the other hand was handed a gift - heavy rain that had never been seen before that wiped out the drought from many years and filled all the reservoirs.

The Southern states are the ones treating 'the least of these' very badly in the last few years. The 'least of these' are marginalized, oppressed, poor people, especially refugees. California has been much better for refugees and poor people. So it makes sense for natural disasters to hit those states with such meanspirited policies.

I expect this year's natural disasters to hit Texas and Florida much worse than California for the rest of the year and going forward.

What are your thoughts?

Life isn't fair and the universe is indifferent to the concept of justice. Karma or heavenly redress are wishful thinking.
Look at previous disasters. Where there any significant number that can be attributed to "karma"?
When major disasters have major impacts, one shouldn't ask "what did the emperor do this time?", one should ask "what did the emperor didn't do to foresee/prevent/attenuate this?".

 

[Wu Wei]

They say, in China, whenever there are major natural disasters, the people would often ask 'What did the Emperor do this time?' (or so I have heard).

'It was also a common belief that natural disasters such as famine and flood were divine retributions bearing signs of Heaven's displeasure with the ruler, so there would often be revolts following major disasters as the people saw these calamities as signs that the Mandate of Heaven had been withdrawn.'

Being a Hindu I think of this as Karma caused by the local government actions rather than the 'Mandate of Heaven'.

I thought about this after reading this headline "Super typhoon Doksuri skips Taiwan and slams into China" . Compared to the Taiwan government, the Karma of the Chinese CCP is really bad because of the way they treat many of their own citizens. So if you follow, the Chinese belief above, it makes sense for the typhoon to avoid Taiwan and wreck China,

Getting closer to home, the recent extreme heatwave in the US pretty much avoided California (it was hot but not that bad) but hit the whole South starting with Arizona and then Texas all the way to Florida, Last year there were many climate events in Texas and Florida, like the freeze in Texas and hurricanes in Florida, California on the other hand was handed a gift - heavy rain that had never been seen before that wiped out the drought from many years and filled all the reservoirs.

The Southern states are the ones treating 'the least of these' very badly in the last few years. The 'least of these' are marginalized, oppressed, poor people, especially refugees. California has been much better for refugees and poor people. So it makes sense for natural disasters to hit those states with such meanspirited policies.

I expect this year's natural disasters to hit Texas and Florida much worse than California for the rest of the year and going forward.

What are your thoughts?

First, that is not what the Mandate of heaven is, or how it works, second I do not buy into any of the Karma thing..... if that is Karma...why is the Mojave desert, in California, currently on fire.

 

[Secret Chief]

For me, kamma is volitional action. The result of that is termed vipaka.

 

[soulsurvivor]

First, that is not what the Mandate of heaven is, or how it works, second I do not buy into any of the Karma thing..... if that is Karma...why is the Mojave desert, in California, currently on fire.

Natural disasters can happen anywhere. California has had many wildfires over the last several years. No region can avoid natural disasters.

However, a natural disaster that affects the large portion of the population and is severe for most of them is very likely karmically driven, in my opinion.

 

[soulsurvivor]

For me, kamma is volitional action. The result of that is termed vipaka.

What the DeSantis administration has done in Florida is totally his own volition. What I am saying is that karmic results affect the entire population of the region, not DeSantis alone.

 

[1213]

I expect this year's natural disasters to hit Texas and Florida much worse than California for the rest of the year and going forward.

What are your thoughts?

So, if California slides into the Pacific ocean, it was their fault? We must keep this in mind.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So, if California slides into the Pacific ocean, it was their fault? We must keep this in mind.

Karma isn’t about assigning blame. It’s causality.

 

[Debater Slayer]

They say, in China, whenever there are major natural disasters, the people would often ask 'What did the Emperor do this time?' (or so I have heard).

'It was also a common belief that natural disasters such as famine and flood were divine retributions bearing signs of Heaven's displeasure with the ruler, so there would often be revolts following major disasters as the people saw these calamities as signs that the Mandate of Heaven had been withdrawn.'

Being a Hindu I think of this as Karma caused by the local government actions rather than the 'Mandate of Heaven'.

I thought about this after reading this headline "Super typhoon Doksuri skips Taiwan and slams into China" . Compared to the Taiwan government, the Karma of the Chinese CCP is really bad because of the way they treat many of their own citizens. So if you follow, the Chinese belief above, it makes sense for the typhoon to avoid Taiwan and wreck China,

Getting closer to home, the recent extreme heatwave in the US pretty much avoided California (it was hot but not that bad) but hit the whole South starting with Arizona and then Texas all the way to Florida, Last year there were many climate events in Texas and Florida, like the freeze in Texas and hurricanes in Florida, California on the other hand was handed a gift - heavy rain that had never been seen before that wiped out the drought from many years and filled all the reservoirs.

The Southern states are the ones treating 'the least of these' very badly in the last few years. The 'least of these' are marginalized, oppressed, poor people, especially refugees. California has been much better for refugees and poor people. So it makes sense for natural disasters to hit those states with such meanspirited policies.

I expect this year's natural disasters to hit Texas and Florida much worse than California for the rest of the year and going forward.

What are your thoughts?

I don't believe in karma, and I usually find the implication of the concept to be an elaborate form of victim-blaming. If there were a universal force of justice or something like cosmic justice, I wouldn't expect it to result in suffering and death for innocent people just because of what a leader did either.

I have similar thoughts on the notion of "divine punishment" against entire regions or peoples based on the actions of a subset thereof: I find it to be a glorification of unjust, indiscriminate punishment and suffering inflicted on innocent people supposedly as a result of others' actions.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I don't believe in karma, and I usually find the implication of the concept to be an elaborate form of victim-blaming. If there were a universal force of justice or something like cosmic justice, I wouldn't expect it to result in suffering and death for innocent people just because of what a leader did either.

I have similar thoughts on the notion of "divine punishment" against entire regions or peoples based on the actions of a subset thereof: I find it to be a glorification of unjust, indiscriminate punishment and suffering inflicted on innocent people supposedly as a result of others' actions.

I see. But you are quite OK with suffering inflicted randomly on 'blameless' victims.

 

[soulsurvivor]

So, if California slides into the Pacific ocean, it was their fault? We must keep this in mind.

That is definitely not going to happen in the next two years - I was just making a prediction for this year and next.

What DeSantis is doing is as much the fault of the people of Florida as it is of his administration.

California sliding into the ocean could eventually happen, everything including nations and states have to end at some time - it is nobody's fault. But I would guess that Florida would be under water before that.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I see. But you are quite OK with suffering inflicted randomly on 'blameless' victims.

I didn't say that. It would be more useful to focus on what I'm actually saying instead of jumping to conclusions and attributing things to me that I haven't said.

Whether or not I'm "okay" with suffering changes nothing; it's merely a fact of life. If I could magically make it disappear, I would, but nobody can do that. I don't attribute it to a conscious entity or to some cosmic force either, since I see no reason or evidence to do so.

 

[Heyo]

I see. But you are quite OK with suffering inflicted randomly on 'blameless' victims.

Your use of "inflicted" seems to suggest an entity that is doing the inflicting. There is no such entity. **** happens.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Your use of "inflicted" seems to suggest an entity that is doing the inflicting. There is no such entity. **** happens.

Isn't the Creator responsible for all that happens in his Creation? He may not be personally causing suffering, but he is surely allowing it to happen. With the concept of Karma, there is cause and effect - suffering is not random. You cannot claim that the latter is unjust and the former perfectly reasonable.

 

[Heyo]

Isn't the Creator responsible for all that happens in his Creation? He may not be personally causing suffering, but he is surely allowing it to happen. With the concept of Karma, there is cause and effect - suffering is not random. You cannot claim that the latter is unjust and the former perfectly reasonable.

I don't assume a "creator" nor "karma". Thus, I don't have to assign blame, least to the victims.

 

[soulsurvivor]

I didn't say that. It would be more useful to focus on what I'm actually saying instead of jumping to conclusions and attributing things to me that I haven't said.

Whether or not I'm "okay" with suffering changes nothing; it's merely a fact of life. If I could magically make it disappear, I would, but nobody can do that. I don't attribute it to a conscious entity or to some cosmic force either, since I see no reason or evidence to do so.

OK, sorry I assumed that. I did not realize you were an atheist. In that case, I don't expect you to believe in Karma or Mandate of Heaven or any such stuff. Maybe when the Christ returns, he can try to convince you (I know you don't believe that either).

 

[soulsurvivor]

I don't assume a "creator" nor "karma". Thus, I don't have to assign blame, least to the victims.

OK, you are an atheist or agnostic? But I don't expect someone who does not believe in a Creator, to believe in such a thing as Karma either.
Actually, I don't assign blame either, it is just a result of an action as in physics - action/reaction.

 

[sun rise]

Karma isn’t about assigning blame. It’s causality.

The Bible has a number of causality sentences using the metaphor of farming, sowing and reaping. The message is the same although the detail vary.

But personally I would be careful about how it works because there is positive and negative karma and for those that believe in reincarnation, it can work out in different lives.

And I personally am mindful that it can work out in different ways. This is 100% pure speculation on my part: For example, let's say I murder someone in cold blood. In a future life the simple karma is that the person murders me. But maybe karma could be satisfied if I save that person's life while dying as a result. I don't know but I refrain from simplistic "it's someone's karma" when I think about what happens in the world.