Kemetic Update

[Rival]

Okay but their gods had different properties, the god Ra was different from the god Khnum. Why didn't the Egyptians have the title Amun Isis or Amun Ptah if that's what Egyptians believed? I have heard the term Amun Ra but never the term Amun Hapi or Amun Hesat.

I know. I have read about this stuff. There are all manner of God mergers, but if you read hymns to Amun you will find He is called Great of Manifestations and other such titles. His cult at Thebes grew into virtual monotheism. I just took it one step further. This is not foreign to Kemetic thought, as the Daughters of Ra, Hat-Hor, Bast and Sekhmet, were often seen as aspects of one another, especially the latter two. Ra and Horu are also sometimes joined as one, as are other gods routinely joined with Ra such as Ra-Atum and Amun-Ra.

The manifestation doesn't need to have 'Amun' before their name, if that's what you're thinking. They are called by their regular names and in the hymns to Amun are often called His 'ba' - ba of earth or fire etc. A ba is an aspect of the soul that's linked to one's character. An icon or statue of a god is said to be a ba of that god. The aspects are bau (plural of ba) of Amun.

'But the inhabitants of Thebaid [Thebes] alone do not contribute (to the national Osiris burials), since they believe in no mortal god, but only in him whom they call Kneph [Amun-Ra], who is unbegotten and immortal.' - Plutarch.

 

[Truthseeker]

Zoroastrianism believe in a transcendent monotheistic God

Zoroastrians are pagans? What does the word pagan mean to you? Or is it that modern Zoroastrian practices seem pagan to you?

 

[Rival]

Zoroastrians are pagans? What does the word pagan mean to you? Or is it that modern Zoroastrian practices seem pagan to you?

Non-Abrahamic religions are all called Pagan. As Zoroastrianism is not an Abrahamic religion it's Pagan.

 

[Alex22]

I know. I have read about this stuff. There are all manner of God mergers, but if you read hymns to Amun you will find He is called Great of Manifestations and other such titles. His cult at Thebes grew into virtual monotheism. I just took it one step further. This is not foreign to Kemetic thought, as the Daughters of Ra, Hat-Hor, Bast and Sekhmet, were often seen as aspects of one another, especially the latter two. Ra and Horu are also sometimes joined as one, as are other gods routinely joined with Ra such as Ra-Atum and Amun-Ra.

The manifestation doesn't need to have 'Amun' before their name, if that's what you're thinking. They are called by their regular names and in the hymns to Amun are often called His 'ba' - ba of earth or fire etc. A ba is an aspect of the soul that's linked to one's character. An icon or statue of a god is said to be a ba of that god. The aspects are bau (plural of ba) of Amun.

'But the inhabitants of Thebaid [Thebes] alone do not contribute (to the national Osiris burials), since they beleive in no mortal god, but only in him whom they call Kneph [Amun-Ra], who is unbegotten and immortal.' - Plutarch.

Interesting, so in the rivalry between Set and Horus it was just Amun battling himself or something? They are clearly different gods. Why do the Egyptians have female goddesses if Amun is male?

 

[Rival]

Very interesting, so the god Set was


Interesting, so in the rivalry between Set and Horus it was just Amun battling himself or something? They are clearly different gods. Why do the Egyptians have female goddesses if Amun is male?

That is a myth. These tales aren't to be taken literally in the same way Greek or Norse myths aren't literal. They tell meaningful stories about good vs evil and so on. It's the same with the story of Job, where some have indeed characterised it as God arguing with himself. Set is also called upon to help the Netjeru battle Apep, the snake representing chaos. So characterising Set as purely against Horu is a surface level understanding of the gods' complex interactions.

He has female aspects. Amun is transcendent and thus beyond such limitations of gender. I don't see the problem here.

Are you just here to rag on my religion or what?

 

[Alex22]

I just disagree with your view that Egyptian religion was monotheistic, I'll stop asking questions now, believe what you wish.

 

[Truthseeker]

Non-Abrahamic religions are all called Pagan. As Zoroastrianism is not an Abrahamic religion it's Pagan.

Pagan has become a pejorative term. I don't see pagan that way. Zoroastrianism is not deserving of being lumped in there. I see it as revealed by God. Pagan shouldn't be used at all. Indigenous religions have a lot of truth in them, in my opinion, for example. Who knows what was behind Greek gods in the dawn of history?

 

[Rival]

Pagan has become a pejorative term. I don't see pagan that way. Zoroastrianism is not deserving of being lumped in there. I see it as revealed by God. Pagan shouldn't be used at all. Indigenous religions have a lot of truth in them, in my opinion, for example. Who knows what was behind Greek gods in the dawn of history?

It's not really a pejorative term anymore. Many people use it as their religious label. Here it just means non-Abrahamic, really. Not any kind of degradation.

 

[Starlight]

Zoroastrians are pagans? What does the word pagan mean to you? Or is it that modern Zoroastrian practices seem pagan to you?

I think zoroastrianism is both abrahamic and pagan at the same time. But zoroastrianism is much more similar to abrahamic religions than pagan religions

 

[Rival]

This is a path I'm coming to appreciate, but I'm not aligned with any Pagan community (in the broadest sense), since most of them tend to be leftists, feminists, liberals and whatnot. They're also very Eurocentric and have a strong focus on Goddess worship and nature and such. But the most annoying part is the lack of conservatism - admittedly, it can be found in Heathen groups but unfortunately many of them go a bit beyond and into racial territory and I don't want to associate with that.

Modern Paganism really seems to be a reactionary movement against Abrahamic faiths and rejects all or most moral constraints of the conservative bent. I'm happily keeping most if not all mine from my Abrahamic past.

 

[JustGeorge]

This is a path I'm coming to appreciate, but I'm not aligned with any Pagan community (in the broadest sense), since most of them tend to be leftists, feminists, liberals

I struggled with that in my Pagan days sometimes... Not being leftist, feminist, or liberal myself sometimes had me sitting on the side lines. Honestly, the more conservative bent of the Baltic faiths led to it being probably my favorite of the European Pagan branches.

 

[Starlight]

This is a path I'm coming to appreciate, but I'm not aligned with any Pagan community (in the broadest sense), since most of them tend to be leftists, feminists, liberals and whatnot. They're also very Eurocentric and have a strong focus on Goddess worship and nature and such. But the most annoying part is the lack of conservatism - admittedly, it can be found in Heathen groups but unfortunately many of them go a bit beyond and into racial territory and I don't want to associate with that.

Modern Paganism really seems to be a reactionary movement against Abrahamic faiths and rejects all or most moral constraints of the conservative bent. I'm happily keeping most if not all mine from my Abrahamic past.

Thats one of the reason i can never be a pagan. I have conservative values. And so many people in the pagan community is leftist, femininst as you wrote.. I think conservative values is very very important. And because of that the abrahamic religions is the best religions for me

 

[Revoltingest]

Some folks asked me:




From Noachidism | Religious Forums

Switching from one set of beliefs to another is hard. It's especially hard when it's fraught with bitterness, heartbreak, and grief, as well as some anger. I ned to go through my angry stage, it's inevitable. It is what it is.

I think I still need to clarify some things.

I am not a Pagan because I thought Paganism would work for me, or even that I think that 'Paganism' is a particularly meaningful term. My favoured form of religion is Abrahamic style, with a scripture, a set of laws, one God, a place of worship, a set liturgy, you know the drill. Pagan faiths always seemed a bit folksy to me; about spirits, lesser-deities, theological heterodoxies, magic. I'm not trying to hide who I am, here; I'm a rules based person who highly values religious orthodoxy, law, and orthopraxy. My religious 'style' is thoroughly Abrahamic. In other words, I'm not suddenly moving into the world of 'circles' and 'sabbats' and 'magick' and 'craft work'. I don't mean to offend folks who practice these things, I'm just saying I want to make it clear that this is not my stead.

So far I've had dreams I've asked for. Dreams of Horu and dreams of Ra, and possibly one of Inpu. I place a lot of importance on dreams, so this works for me. I take these kinds of things very seriously. There was also an incident with a candle I'd left burning at my altar. It was a tealight with a maximum burn time of 4 hours that somehow ended up burning all night for more than 8 hours. I'd had a dream of Horu that morning, too. There may be an explanation for the candle, but I haven't found one. On that night I'd done a candle-lighting ritual to Horu.

The rituals are good and the community seems welcoming. I registered as a user on a UK forum for Kemetics. Turns out we're a very indie bunch.

I've bought several books that have been helpful, my altar is complete, and one man saw me performing the henu gesture outside on the riverbank and could hardly contain his laughter. It's alright; I bought a prayer rug so I could perform henu outside more often now it's summer coming, and he can laugh all he likes.

I'm still surprised at how niche this particular faith is, when other Pagan faiths such as Asatru, Heathenry etc. Druidry, other Celtic faiths, Hellenismos, Religio Romana, and even Slavic Paganism are on the rise and come with plenty of materials, communities, etc. - at least much more so than Kemeticism. What seems to be the deal here is that the most popular Pagan faiths are European ones, and it's Europeans living in Christian countries who want their ancestral faiths. Folks in Muslim countries such as Egypt haven't really this option, as it could prove a socially bad move in light of their communities, so Kemeticism, being an African spirituality, isn't so popular.

The one thing that's getting me most is that a lot of folks seem to join Pagan religions because they want to abandon Abrahamic norms, because they want to have nothing like their former religion - so I'm feeling a little weird in a [vague] community where I'm saying I have no interest in magic or spirits or spells or such. It's making me feel very disparate.

So there's my daily dose of honesty. I miss Abrahamic religion.

I do not envy you seeker types.
Comfort with ignorance of the big
philosophical issues works so well for me.
May your path become easier.

 

[Rival]

Thats one of the reason i can never be a pagan. I have conservative values. And so many people in the pagan community is leftist, femininst as you wrote.. I think conservative values is very very important. And because of that the abrahamic religions is the best religions for me

It is mainly the case, but Heathen groups are known to be quite conservative sometimes. Most Pagan communities in Antiquity were conservative, as well; I think it's only as a reaction to Abrahamic religions that Pagan ones tend to be so liberal. That wasn't the case in the past, however - especially not in places like Greece.

 

[Starlight]

It is mainly the case, but Heathen groups are known to be quite conservative sometimes. Most Pagan communities in Antiquity were conservative, as well; I think it's only as a reaction to Abrahamic religions that Pagan ones tend to be so liberal. That wasn't the case in the past, however - especially not in places like Greece.

The problem with Heathen groups is that some of them is racist..But i know most Heathen groups is not racist.

If more people like you become pagan then more and more pagans will be conservative too. It is strange that there is not more conservative pagans groups..but yes it is most likely because of reaction to Abrahamic religions. But maybe in the future there is many more..

 

[Rival]

The problem with Heathen groups is that some of them is racist..But i know most Heathen groups is not racist.

If more people like you become pagan then more and more pagans will be conservative too. It is strange that there is not more conservative pagans groups..But maybe in the future there is many more..

In many places in Europe Paganism is growing along with more patriotism/nationalism, which tends to be conservative, so it could well be increasing its conservative ranks.

 

[JustGeorge]

Thats one of the reason i can never be a pagan. I have conservative values. And so many people in the pagan community is leftist, femininst as you wrote.. I think conservative values is very very important. And because of that the abrahamic religions is the best religions for me

I think its good to remember there are some conservative Pagans out there. I suspect a lot of them stay silent... I hope as time goes on, and with support, Pagans with all sorts of views can be comfortable in expressing themselves.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem with Heathen groups is that some of them is racist..But i know most Heathen groups is not racist.

If more people like you become pagan then more and more pagans will be conservative too. It is strange that there is not more conservative pagans groups..but yes it is most likely because of reaction to Abrahamic religions. But maybe in the future there is many more..

What group doesn't have some racists?
So that shouldn't be a criterion for choosing or rejecting beliefs.

 

[Rival]

What group doesn't have some racists?
So that shouldn't be a criterion for choosing or rejecting beliefs.

I think the main issue is that some groups have links to neo-Nazis etc. and one wouldn't want to be associated with that at any level.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the main issue is that some groups have links to neo-Nazis etc. and one wouldn't want to be associated with that at any level.

I recommend going with what calls to you.
No doubt there are some racists in my Libertarian Party,
my town, my state, & my country...& even my RF.
But ask yourself....
Do you join something only if membership is perfect?
Or is it because you support the ideas & goals?
Perfection is the enemy of good.