Killing innocent people is a crime in Islam.

[Astounded]

yes it is Gunnah and i suggest you to read quran online so you could be able to know that it is sin.

How can it be a sin when it is permitted to murder?

 

[FearGod]

How can it be a sin when it is permitted to murder?

:areyoucra,to murder whom.

Did i have to repeat the thread from the start,that is the problem that some muslims are stupid enough to misunderstand the quran as you did and kill many innocent people including children.

 

[F0uad]

Why even start such a ridiculous topic you know that Islam bashers are just waiting for such topics to be opened.

 

[Astounded]

:areyoucra,to murder whom.

Did i have to repeat the thread from the start,that is the problem that some muslims are stupid enough to misunderstand the quran as you did and kill many innocent people including children.

The verse is very clear. If some one makes mischief in the land, then murder is permitted, is it not?

 

[FearGod]

Why even start such a ridiculous topic you know that Islam bashers are just waiting for such topics to be opened.

i don't care about the bashers,but i have to pass the message that Islam is a religion of peace.

Yes there are bashers that hate Islam,but there are many great people behind the screen and they have to know that Islam forbid the killing of innocents.

 

[Astounded]

i don't care about the bashers,but i have to pass the message that Islam is a religion of peace.

Yes there are bashers that hate Islam,but there are many great people behind the screen and they have to know that Islam forbid the killing of innocents.

It's in your book. It's not bashing. If the verse is incorrect, then it should be removed. If the verse is confusing to Muslims, it should be clarified.

But no, you'll cry bashing.

 

[Riverwolf]

The verse is very clear. If some one makes mischief in the land, then murder is permitted, is it not?

Isn't that what we have here? And virtually everywhere, I might add? That criminals are to be punished?

 

[Astounded]

Isn't that what we have here? And virtually everywhere, I might add? That criminals are to be punished?

Punished. Not murdered.

 

[FearGod]

Isn't that what we have here? And virtually everywhere, I might add? That criminals are to be punished?

Maybe he thought mischief means not to pray.

Hope the link below may help him to understand better who are those who we need to fight and even the word "fight" itself not to mean to kill but to stop them from awful acts towards humanity and the last choice is punishing and fighting them from doing evil acts but did innocent people do mischief in the land,did the innocent child who died mischiefed in the land.
Tafseer Surah al-Ma

 

[FearGod]

Punished. Not murdered.

Didn't we murder the 2 brothers because they mischiefed in the land.

 

[Astounded]

Didn't we murder the 2 brothers because they mischiefed in the land.

Keep face palming yourself, it might help clear out your thought processes..No one was murdered. BTW, who is "we."

 

[Riverwolf]

Keep face palming yourself, it might help clear out your thought processes..No one was murdered. BTW, who is "we."

I thought one of the brothers was, in fact, shot and killed by police.

'Sides, the verse didn't say murder.

 

[FearGod]

Keep face palming yourself, it might help clear out your thought processes..No one was murdered. BTW, who is "we."

We,the humanity that fight the evil ones.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Would you please show me the forum links that you used this video as your propaganda.

if you are sincere,then that will let me feel comfortable that you aren't a liar.

I am not digging year old forum links for you nor am I displaying my username history. Any person on the net is smart enough to not do so. Regardless of whether I did or did not spam forums with it. I did it the old fashioned way... U.B.E. Yahoo is a killing field for this if I do say so myself. Bilal Phillips and Zakir Naik are often used but I always believed that by using an un-Islamic method of inspiration was a better form of dawah since it attracted attention. My old spamming domains were www.stsu.com and www.786.com. That is all you need to know about me.

Why are you afraid of an apostate Muslim? I am not bitter against Islam or Muslims, I just had an agreement to not associate myself with a religion anymore. I of course recall being taught that the inert desire of mankind was to worship Allah but considering our behavior I sincerely doubt that. No masjid can tell me again that kafr is he who denies to give praise from Allah because not everyone is aware of Islam itself.
To say that everyone is created to worship Allah is quite a statement considering that everyone must be taught how to do so and numerous madhahib differ on exactly how you worship Allah.

Let me also be clear that even though I am not a Muslim according to the Quran, I personally just disagree with certain parts of the Quran and Sunnah. I am about as Muslim as you are but the only issue is that I do not view it as a religious obligation. By definition an apostate is someone who renounces a religion and by renounce it must be in entirety. I have never renounced ALL of Islam technically. So by a quirky default I am still unbearably Muslim in behavior. I am often teased by poor excuses I call friends due to this. I refuse to eat pork, I fast for Ramadan, I pray almost 5 times a day, I still read the Quran quite often (I have slacked as of lately though) and I still try improving my Arabic. I am use to living in an Islamic frame of mind and I still try disproving the deification of Isa and I have never stopped calling Jesus, Isa despite the fundamentalist Christian flak. I do not even accept nu'buwah to add to the confusion

 

[Astounded]

I thought one of the brothers was, in fact, shot and killed by police.

'Sides, the verse didn't say murder.

Shot and killed, not murdered, after killing an MIT police officer and during a gun battle with police.

BTW...it says murder. Verse 32 is for the Jews. Verse 33 is for the Muslims.

Request: Sura 5 Aya 32 to 33

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{32}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.[/SIZE]

إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلَافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{33}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,[/SIZE]

 

[FearGod]

I am not digging year old forum links for you nor am I displaying my username history. Any person on the net is smart enough to not do so. Regardless of whether I did or did not spam forums with it. I did it the old fashioned way... U.B.E. Yahoo is a killing field for this if I do say so myself. Bilal Phillips and Zakir Naik are often used but I always believed that by using an un-Islamic method of inspiration was a better form of dawah since it attracted attention. My old spamming domains were www.stsu.com and www.786.com. That is all you need to know about me.

Why are you afraid of an apostate Muslim? I am not bitter against Islam or Muslims, I just had an agreement to not associate myself with a religion anymore. I of course recall being taught that the inert desire of mankind was to worship Allah but considering our behavior I sincerely doubt that. No masjid can tell me again that kafr is he who denies to give praise from Allah because not everyone is aware of Islam itself.
To say that everyone is created to worship Allah is quite a statement considering that everyone must be taught how to do so and numerous madhahib differ on exactly how you worship Allah.

Let me also be clear that even though I am not a Muslim according to the Quran, I personally just disagree with certain parts of the Quran and Sunnah. I am about as Muslim as you are but the only issue is that I do not view it as a religious obligation. By definition an apostate is someone who renounces a religion and by renounce it must be in entirety. I have never renounced ALL of Islam technically. So by a quirky default I am still unbearably Muslim in behavior. I am often teased by friends due to this. I refuse to eat pork, I fast for Ramadan, I pray almost 5 times a day, I still read the Quran quite often (I have slacked as of lately though) and I still try improving my Arabic. I am use to living in an Islamic frame of mind and I still try disproving the deification of Isa and I have never stopped calling Jesus, Isa despite the fundamentalist Christian flak. I do not even accept anu'nuyah to add to the confusion

And then when i guide muslims not to follow the evil scholars towards killing innocents then you are accusing me that i am doing propoganda for Islam and even accusing Lesley Hazleton.

Do you think you are speaking with grade 1 here in the RF.

 

[FearGod]

Shot and killed, not murdered, after killing an MIT police officer and during a gun battle with police.

BTW...it says murder. Verse 32 is for the Jews. Verse 33 is for the Muslims.

Request: Sura 5 Aya 32 to 33

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{32}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.[/SIZE]

إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلَافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{33}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,[/SIZE]

Did you read the link that explains the verse in details.

 

[Astounded]

Did you read the link that explains the verse in details.

Why? What I posted on 33 is in your book. I don't need to read one man's opinion on it. It's what happens when the Muslim reader of that verse interprets it for himself and then acts on his interpretation.

Qur'an:8:12"I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."

 

[Sha'irullah]

And then when i guide muslims not to follow the evil scholars towards killing innocents then you are accusing me that i am doing propoganda for Islam and even accusing Lesley Hazleton.

Do you think you are speaking with grade 1 here in the RF.

If you do not follow the demented ulama then all I can do is congratulate you considering I have a major disagreement with my local i'mam towards similar issues. Once you ascend to the understanding of alim and shaykh the misguidance becomes ever increasing.
Yes you are indeed propagating Islam. Nothing wrong with that because by default we all propagate our believes on RF since religion and theology will naturally be put on the table. You are trying to justify your faith in Islam just as much as I justify my acceptance of deistic theology among other ideals. I am not blaming you for doing what you do, but what I am blaming you for is using Lesley Hazleton who I despise with great ferocity. So please stop taking this as a personal attack against you, although I am attacking you for using Lesley Hazleton.
To me she is comparable to the deceptive debauchery of Irshad Manji and Bill Maurer. Her knowledge of the Qur'an is nil and her politically motivated propagandizing of it is purely done to ease societal discomfort by employing a liberal campaign of hippie love.

Has you temper cooled down because I shan't be any more clear that I am infuriated that you used Lesley Hazleton and her irrevocable knowledge.
When you propagate Islam or any other religion beware that personal bias will interfer.

 

[Riverwolf]

Shot and killed, not murdered, after killing an MIT police officer and during a gun battle with police.

I thought shot and killed = murder. Aren't police supposed to take suspects in alive if at all possible?

BTW...it says murder. Verse 32 is for the Jews. Verse 33 is for the Muslims.

Request: Sura 5 Aya 32 to 33

مِنْ أَجْلِ ذَٰلِكَ كَتَبْنَا عَلَىٰ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ أَنَّهُ مَنْ قَتَلَ نَفْسًا بِغَيْرِ نَفْسٍ أَوْ فَسَادٍ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَكَأَنَّمَا قَتَلَ النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا وَمَنْ أَحْيَاهَا فَكَأَنَّمَا أَحْيَا النَّاسَ جَمِيعًا ۚ وَلَقَدْ جَاءَتْهُمْ رُسُلُنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ ثُمَّ إِنَّ كَثِيرًا مِنْهُمْ بَعْدَ ذَٰلِكَ فِي الْأَرْضِ لَمُسْرِفُونَ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{32}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.[/SIZE]

I don't see it there. In fact, that verse seems perfectly reasonable (though nowadays there should be due process of law.)

إِنَّمَا جَزَاءُ الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَنْ يُقَتَّلُوا أَوْ يُصَلَّبُوا أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُمْ مِنْ خِلَافٍ أَوْ يُنْفَوْا مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا ۖ وَلَهُمْ فِي الْآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ [FONT=verdana,arial,helvetica]{33}[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][Shakir 5:33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,[/SIZE]

Funny how Yusuf Ali translates it as "execution."