exchemist
Veteran Member
Gospel has a modern meaning in English.
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Kingdom Gospel ism
- Thread starter OtherSheep
- Start date
74x12
Well-Known Member
These two shall be one flesh. The woman Eve was taken from Adam's side. These were originally One flesh.
Jesus is said to be the head of the body. The body itself is the bride of Christ. Married to God through Christ we're reunited. One Spirit is in the whole body. Yet the whole body is subject to the will of the head. Just as your body is subject to your head. Your brain is in control. But your whole body comprised of cells and cells making organs is one body.
If your conscious bids you obey the Law of Moses then do so, but if you have more understanding in the mystery of Christ and more faith then you'll see Him more clearly and more fully comprehend.
You say that His sheep hear His voice and don't follow another. That's true. But, Jesus said to His disciples "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Jesus says if you will enter life, keep the commandments, and quotes no murder, no adultery, no stealing, no bearing false witness, honor your parents... and thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. i.o.w., if you do these things, you will be loving your neighbor as yourself.
The other 5 commandments are about loving God. Jesus proved that the rich young man didn't love God, because he loved his stuff... his is the seed that is choked by the world, in Matthew 13:22.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
And what would that be? I have to confess that I am a literalist.
exchemist
Veteran Member
And, like most of them, a disingenuous one.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
"but as many things as He will hear He will speak, and the coming things He will tell you; He will glorify Me, because of Mine He will take, and will tell to you." (John 6:13, YLT)
The last Book of the Kingdom Gospel is the Revelation. When we find that the author has interpreted His sayings for us, we have arrived at the meaning the author wished to convey.
The book of the Revelation is what Jesus meant. 1:19 "the things that are about to come after these things." 19:10 "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of the prophecy." 22:17 "And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing -- let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting -- let him come; and he who is willing -- let him take the water of life freely."(YLT)
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
The laws are very ancient. If we go with Christian modern Bibles they begin not in Eden but on Mt. Sinai. Eden can be considered as part of the beginning of Israel, so possibly Eden is included but not in a timeline. If Eden exists before the experience at Sinai then no.
The Millennial Reign appears only in Revelation and should not be a lens for interpreting much. It should be taken in the traditional way. What we do know for sure is that it requires patience on the part of the saints. I do not take Revelation as a timetable or ordering if events at all.
I think that is probably close to the model. Paul says the circumcision are entrusted with the 'Oracles of God' which could refer to Torah or oral Torah. He seems to think that the church requires their input to function.
Its in the correct area although if you put it into 'Biblical Debates' you would narrow your audience to exclude other religious scripture such as the Vedas. That might matter if you wanted to avoid arguing about what counted as scripture. Usually its not a problem. When you pick a debate area you narrow down who replies.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Did the Jews of Jerusalem ever say that Jesus took away from the law?
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Noah knew what the clean animals meant. Cain is charged with knowing what the correct offering was supposed to be. The whole world knew about burnt offerings because of Noah... and they carried it to their lands in various forms, which some call the patriarchal religion.
IMHO, Jesus references the Millennium by telling us that the Law will not pass away until the Heaven and Earth pass away... and that happens after the Millennium.
Thank you for that... I was starting to think that I was an alien just visiting this planet. Although I doubt that Jesus would give the right hand of fellowship to anything other than what was written in stone... He tells us that at least one of the laws of Moses were given to hardhearted people... so what He taught in Matthew 5-7 are to bring back what God had said to Moses that was to be applied to tenderhearted men who are called the blessed.
I don't mean to be offering you either rebuttal or a sermon... but I have been laboring in places where the wheat's an inch tall, and as green as grass.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
The sabbath rest is for man... this saying of Jesus seems to have changed their minds, since He spoke as a man who knew more than the scribes who... seemed an awful lot like loop-hole-lawyers. And the Pharisees seemed even worse, since Jesus blames the lot of them for the deaths of the righteous of all ages. Do you suppose that the first Pharisee was Cain? Or was Cain the prototype which the Pharisees followed?
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Personally, I still view the sabbath rest as the 7th day. I see nothing that Jesus says to change my mind on the day given by God.
Now... for dietary laws... Jesus says that eating with unwashed hands doesn't defile a man, in context. He never said that unclean foods wouldn't defile a man, He said that dirt wouldn't.
Jesus kept the whole Law. If He hadn't He would never have said that He didn't come to do away with the Law, which would stand until Heaven and Earth passed away.
That hasn't happened, even yet. And it won't happen until after the Millennium.
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OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Why would you think that Jesus didn't know what His Father meant? Wouldn't it make more sense to accept the fact that if you've seen Jesus, then you've seen the Father? And let Jesus interpret the meanings that the Father gave to the Mosaic Law.
Noah's world is full of violence. He is not violent. That could explain how he knows how to offer communion. There's no need to infer knowledge of the future or the mosaic covenant. There is some means by which he discerns which animals can be used. It may not be through the list given by Moses.
Cain is not told which thing to offer or if so we are not told so. It simply says his offering is not accepted, but there is nothing in Mosaic law against an offering of firstfruits. We only know the offering isn't accepted not why unless we infer a reason. How much can we know about sacrifices having never been to one?
That is an idea you have. There is no Bible verse saying the world gets knowledge through Noah. The only inkling is that a covenant is made, but what do we know about covenants?
By the way you can start a thread in Same Faith Debates that specifies you only want to debate with those Christians who believe in a millennial reign or any specific set of doctrines that you specify.
It is Ok. As long as you are polite, put up with other's outbursts and don't start telling others to accept your views you will probably not break any of the forum's ten rules very often. The no preaching rule does not exclude debate in areas marked for it. Its fine to have an opinion and defend it in debate areas. No insults allowed unfortunately, though insults are an intregal part of human communication!
I can't argue with your logic.
However, the question of the law of Moses in our time has already received a classic response by anon., which in case you haven't come across it I set out below. ('Laura' is the columnist Laura Schlessinger.) ─
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord — Leviticus 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness — Leviticus 15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination — Leviticus 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? — Leviticus 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted fan,
Jim
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:
When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord — Leviticus 1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness — Leviticus 15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination — Leviticus 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. How should they die?
I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
My uncle has a farm. He violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? — Leviticus 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Leviticus 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted fan,
Jim
I find while the temporary Constitution of the Mosaic Law was still in effect as the ^ above ^ applies.
Jesus fulfilled that old Law as per Romans 10:4.
Jesus gave us a NEW commandment to follow at John 13:34-35 that we should have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, instead of love others as self (Golden Rule) we are Now to love others MORE than self.
I find that Earth is permanent as per Ecclesiastes 1:4 B that the Earth abides forever.
The Earth would have to be here in order for the meek to inherit the Earth as Jesus promised.
Inherit the Earth once the wicked are destroyed forever -> Psalms 37:9-11; Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22.
For as Psalms 104:30 states the foundations of the Earth will Not be removed forever.- Psalms 104:35.
So, God has gifted a permanent Earth for mankind as per Psalms 115:16.
Through Jesus then Earth is on the way to complete recovery.
Mankind will see the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' as per Revelation 22:2 for the healing of earth's nations.
That is in fulfillment to God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of Earth will be blessed, and ALL nations of Earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefit of healing when 'enemy death ' will be No more on Earth as per 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8. Earth will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Besides the Golden Rule to love others as self, I find Jesus gave us a New commandment at John 13:34-35 to Now have the same self-sacrificing love for others as he has. In other words, to Now love others MORE than self.
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I find at Revelation 7:9 there is an un-numbered great number of people mentioned who come through the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14. They are the humble figurative ' sheep ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40, so that seems to indicate that number is more than the congregation of Revelation's Philadelphia congregation - Isaiah 26:20.
In Bible speak, I find 'gospel' is good news such as the good news of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
That kingdom government is the good news of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 that Jesus said would be proclaimed on an international scale just as it is being done world-wide today.