Koch Brothers Attempt To Subvert Democracy Again

[Revoltingest]

They're at it again.
The Atlantic wonders if their evil agenda might inadvertently do some good.
Sounds wonderful to me.
What do you think?

https://www.charleskochinstitute.org/issue-areas/criminal-justice-policing-reform/
The Challenge
The number of people incarcerated in the United States has ballooned by 500 percent over the last 40 years. Ninety percent of these people will one day leave prison and face the challenge of reintegrating into their communities as productive citizens.
Our Goal
Our communities are safest when the criminal justice system respects human dignity. That means achieving justice for victims as well as ensuring that people leaving prison have opportunities to succeed on the outside. We support reforms that improve communication between police and citizens and that reduce recidivism by removing barriers to opportunity.
Our Focus
We focus on areas that will have the greatest impact:
Sentencing
Too many people go to prison—often for far too long—for low-level, nonviolent crimes. People who break the law should be held accountable, but the punishment should fit the crime.
Second Chances
Thousands of laws erect barriers for those with a criminal record to getting jobs and rejoining their communities with dignity, increasing the likelihood of recidivism.
Overcriminalization
Thousands of seemingly ordinary activities, like shipping lobsters in the wrong kind of container and shampooing hair without a license, are classified as crimes. We shouldn’t criminalize so many things, and jail should be reserved for people who are truly dangerous.
Civil Asset Forfeiture
Law enforcement officers can take your property if they suspect it relates to a crime, even if you’re innocent. Getting your property back is difficult, and the seized assets may go directly to a law enforcement agency’s budget. Policing should be about public safety, not profit.
Policing Practices
Many law enforcement departments are using equipment and tactics from the battlefield. When police are seen as peace officers rather than an occupying force, community trust can grow. This trust and collaboration is important to solving crime and protecting the public.

Rethinking the way we classify and handle property and drug crimes—as many states have done in recent years—can free up funds that are currently used for incarceration. These funds can be spent on better law enforcement and stopping violent crimes before they happen.

Vikrant Reddy, Senior Research Fellow

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think the government has made it perfectly clear that they're not going to bother with changing anytime soon. Whenever people talk or post about this kind of subject that's all it is and remains as being.

I think arresting people has gotten out of control and the privatization of some prison systems has made it even worse as in the cases of several judges who were caught sentencing people for profit.

It's really disconcerting when you see mudane and minor infractions or even harmless activity criminalized to the extent that it is now.

We're not the land of the free where the home of the imprisoned has achieved world wide records for unprecedented incarceration in the entire history of this country if not the world itself.

But the government continually says no.

Incarceration will continue and even increase. And that's the end of that, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Personally knowing some people that are law breakers and have gone to prison I have to say that the examples given are ludicrous. The legal system bends over backwards to keep people out of prison. First, second, third, and fourth chances are the norm. One has to break a fairly serious law to earn prison time. Most of those that I know that went to prison had a drug abuse problem. Getting hooked on opiates is a habit that is all but impossible for depressed people to kick. As a result many of them end up going through a revolving door once they get hooked.

There may be a cure, and it could easily be make more economic sense than our current methodology. I would propose a much larger carrot combined with a much larger stick. Free treatment and help in getting employment and back into society of any addict. As an alternative prison sentences that are too long for those that opt out of treatment. In other words, a go through treatment or else situation. People would need to know that they would be well treated in treatment. That there is a positive end to their addiction. Even after treatment "ends" there must be follow up testing and support available since there is no magic cure yet. If users could opt out relatively painlessly there would not be so much protection of sources. Cure the problem end the crime.

Ignoring the problem by allowing massive homeless camps etc. is not an answer to the problem. It is only putting off the inevitable. With the costs of crime and prison treatment is probably cheaper in the long run.

 

[Valjean]

I think much of this makes good sense.

Many criminals already have poor life skills -- which may have contributed to their crimes. Throwing up further barriers to employment and social integration after release is just asking for them to turn back to crime.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

One of the reasons I'd prefer political battles against libertarians instead of Religious Conservatives.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Personally knowing some people that are law breakers and have gone to prison I have to say that the examples given are ludicrous. The legal system bends over backwards to keep people out of prison.

It's just talking about the ones who go there, not those who don't. And overcrowding has become a more common problem. America's police are busy being bullies and going after people who really don't pose a threat. And, increasingly, the toys they have to bully people with are becoming military equipment. Stuff designed for war zones, not regular policing.

 

[sun rise]

A stopped clock is right twice a day as they say. And to directly address the sarcasm in the title, I despise how they are buying tax cuts from their minions and other plutocratic and kleptocratic efforts of theirs. But when they happen to be right, I'll agree with them.

Five Myths About the Koch Brothers — And Why It Matters To Set Them Straight – BillMoyers.com in case any are interested.

 

[Stevicus]

They're at it again.
The Atlantic wonders if their evil agenda might inadvertently do some good.
Sounds wonderful to me.
What do you think?

Sounds good on its face. I'm not sure if it'll go anywhere, though. I've heard such proposals before, but they tend to fall on deaf ears. Even simple things that should have been done decades ago, such as legalizing marijuana, have met up against powerful resistance and opposition. Even though the majority of Americans think it should be legalized, somehow it still remains illegal at the Federal level and in most states. It makes no sense at all.

 

[Valjean]

This obviously isn't part of their subvert democracy agenda. That's not to say they don't have such an agenda. Just look at David's 1980 VP platform: Astounding: David Koch's 1980 VP Run: Kill Medicare, Social Security, Minimum Wage, Public Schools
Obviously the direct approach didn't work, so they've since been tip toeing toward Babylon more surreptitiously -- and with greater success.

The Hells Angels do charity work. That doesn't make them a social service organization.
PR is important.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sounds good on its face. I'm not sure if it'll go anywhere, though. I've heard such proposals before, but they tend to fall on deaf ears. Even simple things that should have been done decades ago, such as legalizing marijuana, have met up against powerful resistance and opposition. Even though the majority of Americans think it should be legalized, somehow it still remains illegal at the Federal level and in most states. It makes no sense at all.

I've heard so many claims about how their vast wealth affects (adversely) us.
So I hope they have some success.
I suspect Trump would be a roadblock.

 

[Revoltingest]

This obviously isn't part of their subvert democracy agenda. That's not to say they don't have such an agenda. Just look at David's 1980 VP platform: Astounding: David Koch's 1980 VP Run: Kill Medicare, Social Security, Minimum Wage, Public Schools
Obviously the direct approach didn't work, so they've since been tip toeing toward Babylon more surreptitiously -- and with greater success.

The Hells Angels do charity work. That doesn't make them a social service organization.
PR is important.

How do you know that the things you dislike aren't their PR,
with the things you like being their real work?

What I see going on is that the left doesn't know what to make of the Kochs.
The Kochs have been to the left of Democrats on some issues, yet to the
right of Republicans on others. Lefties know the Kochs are the enemy,
but are perplexed by their being more socially progressive.
So what's a liberal to do?
Attack them even when there's agreement! Tribalism trumps issues.

 

[Valjean]

How do you know that the things you dislike aren't their PR,
with the things you like being their real work?

I like democracy and a strong middle class. They don't.

 

[Revoltingest]

I like democracy and a strong middle class. They don't.

You've a window into their souls, & see their hidden desires, eh?

 

[columbus]

You've a window into their souls, & see their hidden desires, eh?

Souls? SOULS?
The Koch bros don't have souls.

Actually, I am inclined to give credit where it's due, including them. But I am quite certain that they're some of the top people who conceived, designed, organized, and funded the Tea Party. I think that one of the most cynical and destructive efforts in recent politics.
So they're going to be on my naughty list for a long time.
Tom

 

[Stevicus]

I've heard so many claims about how their vast wealth affects (adversely) us.
So I hope they have some success.
I suspect Trump would be a roadblock.

I think it's based on the perception that money talks in politics and that the wealthy will try to use it for their own political/economic gain. It seems loosely based on old ideas of aristocracy and monarchism, the idea that a certain class of people are better and more enlightened than the common proles who are viewed as nothing more than cattle. Freedom is only extended to those of a certain "enlightened" class, while the proles have to be kept controlled through various means. That's why such proposals tend to fall by the wayside, since it gives too much freedom and independence to the peasants that it scares the bejesus out of the upper classes.

That's why Caesar was so hated by his fellow aristocrats, since he touted himself as a "man of the people" and was seen as trying to rile up the masses to gain more power for himself.

 

[Revoltingest]

Souls? SOULS?
The Koch bros don't have souls.

Neither do I.

Actually, I am inclined to give credit where it's due, including them. But I am quite certain that they're some of the top people who conceived, designed, organized, and funded the Tea Party. I think that one of the most cynical and destructive efforts in recent politics.
So they're going to be on my naughty list for a long time.
Tom

I thought the Tea Party made things more interesting.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sounds good on its face. I'm not sure if it'll go anywhere, though. I've heard such proposals before, but they tend to fall on deaf ears. Even simple things that should have been done decades ago, such as legalizing marijuana, have met up against powerful resistance and opposition. Even though the majority of Americans think it should be legalized, somehow it still remains illegal at the Federal level and in most states. It makes no sense at all.

Sad and pathetic that the Justice system is a scam to profit a few at the expense of anyone who gets caught up in the system. Its something that unites the Left and Right, conspiracy theorists, Liberals and Conservatives, and pretty much everybody else, except the prosecutors who aren't wanting to give up a plentiful stream of petty drug charges, except for the private prison CEO, except those financially linked to making money by herding and corralling people into jails and prisons beyond capacity to exploit inmate labor and soak up every dime possible.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

They're at it again.
The Atlantic wonders if their evil agenda might inadvertently do some good.
Sounds wonderful to me.
What do you think?

https://www.charleskochinstitute.org/issue-areas/criminal-justice-policing-reform/
The Challenge
The number of people incarcerated in the United States has ballooned by 500 percent over the last 40 years. Ninety percent of these people will one day leave prison and face the challenge of reintegrating into their communities as productive citizens.
Our Goal
Our communities are safest when the criminal justice system respects human dignity. That means achieving justice for victims as well as ensuring that people leaving prison have opportunities to succeed on the outside. We support reforms that improve communication between police and citizens and that reduce recidivism by removing barriers to opportunity.
Our Focus
We focus on areas that will have the greatest impact:
Sentencing
Too many people go to prison—often for far too long—for low-level, nonviolent crimes. People who break the law should be held accountable, but the punishment should fit the crime.
Second Chances
Thousands of laws erect barriers for those with a criminal record to getting jobs and rejoining their communities with dignity, increasing the likelihood of recidivism.
Overcriminalization
Thousands of seemingly ordinary activities, like shipping lobsters in the wrong kind of container and shampooing hair without a license, are classified as crimes. We shouldn’t criminalize so many things, and jail should be reserved for people who are truly dangerous.
Civil Asset Forfeiture
Law enforcement officers can take your property if they suspect it relates to a crime, even if you’re innocent. Getting your property back is difficult, and the seized assets may go directly to a law enforcement agency’s budget. Policing should be about public safety, not profit.
Policing Practices
Many law enforcement departments are using equipment and tactics from the battlefield. When police are seen as peace officers rather than an occupying force, community trust can grow. This trust and collaboration is important to solving crime and protecting the public.

Rethinking the way we classify and handle property and drug crimes—as many states have done in recent years—can free up funds that are currently used for incarceration. These funds can be spent on better law enforcement and stopping violent crimes before they happen.

Vikrant Reddy, Senior Research Fellow

Andy Griffith for sherriff.

 

[columbus]

Neither do I.

Of course you don't have a soul. Straight white cismales with money never do.

I thought the Tea Party made things more interesting.

I think that the Tea Party had a lot to do with why you were stuck choosing between Godzillary and an old Simpson's joke for President. It split the common sense Republicans from the wackos.
Tom

 

[tytlyf]

Are the Koch's in favor of private prisons? You can see where this is going.. The Kochs are the problem in America.