Koran & Hadith in plain english?

[MyM]

Well, lets look at the English Qurans as you are doing to the English translation of the Bible.
Not even Rashad Khalifa and Sahee agrees.
What about Sawar, who translated it true, and Yusuf ali that whitewashes the bad words in the quran.
I also have the Dakdok English, and a totally new quran by Drew Ali!

Who decided if God gave his so called "Endorsement"?

Show me how Allah endorsed the Quran?

The Arabic speaks for itself. It's ONE VERSION not translations after translations. The Quran speaks for itself. It has the Arabic grammar (very very precisely detailed), it has the miracles of science (proven)-but yet it isn't even a science book, it tells of the past, future. Not everyone was entitled in the days of Mohammad pbuh, to give exegesis of the Quran, he named the most knowledgeable to do it. The ahadith proves the Quran from Mohammad pbuh.

I still don't think you understand. Allah made ONE QURAN. not many and those who claim they have are misleading and will never be accepted for millions and I MEAN MILLIONS have memorized the ENTIRE QURAN.

You are taking translations....seriously stop.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Yes, but my opinion isn't just an opinion. It is a fact even from the Christian theologians themselves. They know .

Yes, an opinion from Christian Theologans who does scriptual critisizm as a science to see how manuscripts differ.
They dont say the Bible is coruupted pal.

In scriptual critisizm the word cuppuption about certain words or verses simply means the change from the original to the current.
It is a study on how speeling errors, newer words, damages in manuscripts resulted in words wronly coppied, etc.

They do not hold your view that the Bible was corrupted.
Your point of view is blasphemy against Allah, does Allah not say:
6:114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
6:115 The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

18:27 Recite what has been revealed to you from the Book of your Lord. None can change His Words, nor can you find any refuge besides Him.
Q 2: 285 The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers,
Q 5: 43 But how do they come to you for decision while they have the Tawrat (Torah), in which is the (plain) Decision of Allah; yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.
Q 5:110 [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;


There are many verses in the Quran telling us that the Torah and Gospels are the words of "Allah", yet Muslims say
:"Allah's Word can be corrupted!"

Muslims dont even learlis how they are blaspheming their god with such an accusation.
Luckilly I do not believe the Quran as YHWH's words, not that Allah exists.
Muslims does, and they will have to answer their blasphemy.

 

[SA Huguenot]

This whole dialogue is pointless, unless you can tell us exactly how the Qur'an was changed..
I mean, what was Islam originally, according to you?

Was it changed from G-d being Three to G-d being One, for example?

Where do you get G-d being 3?
Only the Quran say G-d is 3.
"Desist from saying 3!"
Well, I dont say God is 3, and never did any Christian say God is 3. This was what Muhammad thought and he continued with the error.
You want me to explain something that does not exist.

Tell you what, lets start the conversation on the Trinity.
Explain how you get the Trinity to be 3 different gods please!
Who are these 3 gods you think Christians believe in?

 

[MyM]

OK, so give me your version of Q66:12!

“And Maryam (Mary), the daughter of ‘Imraan who guarded her chastity. And We breathed into through Our Rooh and she believed in the words of her Lord and His scriptures and was of the devoutly obedient [i.e. Jibreel (Gabriel)]”. al-Tahreem 66:12


In this aya (verse) it says in the Arabic, the word Nafakhaa feehi meaning blow/blew into her...doesn't give details on where, how, etc. There's no need to even go that far as to question to that extent. Allah Allah has to say is Be and it is.

Allah sent Angel Jibreel to blow thus she conceived. There is nothing perverted as to what you are saying or thinking. Allah created Eesa that way. He said Be and it was.

“And your Lord creates whatsoever He wills and chooses” al-Qasas 28:68

You did explain what BEGOTTEN means yet. Why?

 

[MyM]

Yes, an opinion from Christian Theologans who does scriptual critisizm as a science to see how manuscripts differ.
They dont say the Bible is coruupted pal.

In scriptual critisizm the word cuppuption about certain words or verses simply means the change from the original to the current.
It is a study on how speeling errors, newer words, damages in manuscripts resulted in words wronly coppied, etc.

They do not hold your view that the Bible was corrupted.
Your point of view is blasphemy against Allah, does Allah not say:
6:114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.
6:115 The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all.

18:27 Recite what has been revealed to you from the Book of your Lord. None can change His Words, nor can you find any refuge besides Him.
Q 2: 285 The Messenger has believed in what was revealed to him from his Lord, and the believers. All of them have believed in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers,
Q 5: 43 But how do they come to you for decision while they have the Tawrat (Torah), in which is the (plain) Decision of Allah; yet even after that, they turn away. For they are not (really) believers.
Q 5:110 [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel;


There are many verses in the Quran telling us that the Torah and Gospels are the words of "Allah", yet Muslims say
:"Allah's Word can be corrupted!"

Muslims dont even learlis how they are blaspheming their god with such an accusation.
Luckilly I do not believe the Quran as YHWH's words, not that Allah exists.
Muslims does, and they will have to answer their blasphemy.

You are all over the place. Can't you stick to one subject at a time?

But yes, in Islam, we believe in all the books from Allah. He sent them. But the reason for more messengers is that they kept on diverting away from the path and oneness of Allah. Thus the need for more messengers and prophets. Over time, yes, they have been mismanaged, corrupted, written by hands of men as Allah says in the Quran. That is why he sent the last messenger and finalized it all. In Islam, this is the last message to mankind and after this, no more messengers will be sent. Allah has made that clear in the Quran. Mohammad pbuh told us of what will be coming up unto the Descent of Jesus on him peace, the final hours before the day of judgement. Things are proving true at this time and age. Many of the minor signs have already been fulfilled.

 

[MyM]

Where do you get G-d being 3?
Only the Quran say G-d is 3.
"Desist from saying 3!"
Well, I dont say God is 3, and never did any Christian say God is 3. This was what Muhammad thought and he continued with the error.
You want me to explain something that does not exist.

Tell you what, lets start the conversation on the Trinity.
Explain how you get the Trinity to be 3 different gods please!
Who are these 3 gods you think Christians believe in?

God the Father, God the son, God the holy spirit, but not three Gods but one god.

three DIFFERENT beings. yet one...so nonsensical.

 

[SA Huguenot]

The Arabic speaks for itself. It's ONE VERSION not translations after translations. The Quran speaks for itself. It has the Arabic grammar (very very precisely detailed), it has the miracles of science (proven)-but yet it isn't even a science book, it tells of the past, future. Not everyone was entitled in the days of Mohammad pbuh, to give exegesis of the Quran, he named the most knowledgeable to do it. The ahadith proves the Quran from Mohammad pbuh.

I still don't think you understand. Allah made ONE QURAN. not many and those who claim they have are misleading and will never be accepted for millions and I MEAN MILLIONS have memorized the ENTIRE QURAN.

You are taking translations....seriously stop.

Well, why do you call the Bible corrupt because there are different English Translations, when the Quran has just as much different English verions?

In case you dont know, there are one Hebrew Old Testament, which was found to be virtually the same as the one we had in 1948 that was hand written over and over for 3000 years, when at the Dead Sea many OT manuscripts were discovered dating from 160 BC!
Christians never knew these manuscripts existed, and Just trusted that the Jewish scribes did a good job over thousands of years, and it was amaising to find that over 2200 years, the manuscripts was virtually exact.

On the New Testament, there are partial manuscripts dating from 90Ad to obviously 1460 Ad when the printing press was invented.
However, handwritten coppies of the complete New Testament did not exist untill 200 Ad. and we have the Codex Sinaiticus dating from the 4th century. (between 330 and 350 AD)

However, there are many older manuscripts in various stages of age related wear, dating from anything from 90Ad to 120 Ad, which was well withing the age of the Apostles and their disciples, that amaisingly still exists, and was discovered by archaeologists over the past 200 years.

The more that is discovered, the better NT critics are silenced on the well preserved words of the NT.

Mow, what is this "Uhmm-Ahh!" by Bible critisizers and Muslims scholars telling us the Bible was corrupted over the ages?

1. the Sinaiticus discovered in 1844 for instance does not have the Johannine comma, (1 John 5:7) which says there are 3 that bear record, the Father, the Son and the Holy ghost, and these 3 are one.
However, there are enough evidence to know that 1Jhohn 5: 7 was understood by the early christians as part of scripture.

Now, keep in mind that the Christian Church was persecuted vehemently from 70Ad to 313 AD, and their books was burned, they were tortured and killed etc.
However, some writings still survived, and today we can be sure that 1John 5: 7 was in the original letter from John. The Vaticanus even kept the spaces open because the scribe knew there were still verses to be entered within, but did not perhaps know what. It is even prssible that the manuscript he wrote from was damaged in that portion, who knows.

Anyhow, the message of the Crucifixion, and ressurection is very clear in all the manuscripts.
Anyone saying the Bible was corrupted, and Jesus did not die on the cross, does not know anything about the Manuscripts.

By the way, Christians for ever knew the maniscrupts had variations, etc.
We never claimed that "Not a simgle word was changed, such as Muslims does about the Quran.

Greetings.

 

[SA Huguenot]

You are all over the place. Can't you stick to one subject at a time?

But yes, in Islam, we believe in all the books from Allah. He sent them. But the reason for more messengers is that they kept on diverting away from the path and oneness of Allah. Thus the need for more messengers and prophets. Over time, yes, they have been mismanaged, corrupted, written by hands of men as Allah says in the Quran. That is why he sent the last messenger and finalized it all. In Islam, this is the last message to mankind and after this, no more messengers will be sent. Allah has made that clear in the Quran. Mohammad pbuh told us of what will be coming up unto the Descent of Jesus on him peace, the final hours before the day of judgement. Things are proving true at this time and age. Many of the minor signs have already been fulfilled.

So, you say people changed Allah's revelations!
Allah knows waht you are saying.
Allah said NO ONE can CHANGE HIS WORDS!

 

[SA Huguenot]

lol seriously, Do you know Arabic language?

You bring me Muhammad's Quran, and I will learn Arabic!
period!

 

[SA Huguenot]

it has the miracles of science (proven)-but

OK, so what does the Quran say?
Was the Earth made before the Universe, or was the Earth made after the Universe.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Allah made ONE QURAN. not many and those who claim they have are misleading and will never be accepted for millions and I MEAN MILLIONS have memorized the ENTIRE QURAN.

Which one, Hafs Warsh, Qualoon or Al duri?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Guarded her chastity. And We breathed into

OK, so please explain
1. How did Allah blew into a "chastity".
A Chastity is not an object.
therefore, into what did Allah blew into?

 

[MyM]

Well, why do you call the Bible corrupt because there are different English Translations, when the Quran has just as much different English verions?

In case you dont know, there are one Hebrew Old Testament, which was found to be virtually the same as the one we had in 1948 that was hand written over and over for 3000 years, when at the Dead Sea many OT manuscripts were discovered dating from 160 BC!
Christians never knew these manuscripts existed, and Just trusted that the Jewish scribes did a good job over thousands of years, and it was amaising to find that over 2200 years, the manuscripts was virtually exact.

On the New Testament, there are partial manuscripts dating from 90Ad to obviously 1460 Ad when the printing press was invented.
However, handwritten coppies of the complete New Testament did not exist untill 200 Ad. and we have the Codex Sinaiticus dating from the 4th century. (between 330 and 350 AD)

However, there are many older manuscripts in various stages of age related wear, dating from anything from 90Ad to 120 Ad, which was well withing the age of the Apostles and their disciples, that amaisingly still exists, and was discovered by archaeologists over the past 200 years.

The more that is discovered, the better NT critics are silenced on the well preserved words of the NT.

Mow, what is this "Uhmm-Ahh!" by Bible critisizers and Muslims scholars telling us the Bible was corrupted over the ages?

1. the Sinaiticus discovered in 1844 for instance does not have the Johannine comma, (1 John 5:7) which says there are 3 that bear record, the Father, the Son and the Holy ghost, and these 3 are one.
However, there are enough evidence to know that 1Jhohn 5: 7 was understood by the early christians as part of scripture.

Now, keep in mind that the Christian Church was persecuted vehemently from 70Ad to 313 AD, and their books was burned, they were tortured and killed etc.
However, some writings still survived, and today we can be sure that 1John 5: 7 was in the original letter from John. The Vaticanus even kept the spaces open because the scribe knew there were still verses to be entered within, but did not perhaps know what. It is even prssible that the manuscript he wrote from was damaged in that portion, who knows.

Anyhow, the message of the Crucifixion, and ressurection is very clear in all the manuscripts.
Anyone saying the Bible was corrupted, and Jesus did not die on the cross, does not know anything about the Manuscripts.

By the way, Christians for ever knew the maniscrupts had variations, etc.
We never claimed that "Not a simgle word was changed, such as Muslims does about the Quran.

Greetings.

I am not saying that there aren't words of God inside the Bible. There very well could be. I am saying that the Bible has been changed and keeps changing. Men do that not God.

The crucifixion is very clear that Paul created the gospel.
2 Timothy 2:8 "Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel"

you are following Paul not Jesus

Muslims believe in the Quran and over 1400 years IT'S THE SAME. Nothing keeps getting found, nothing keeps turning up years later or centuries later. That's not how Allah works. He sent it down over a period of 23 years. It has been kept. Whereas the Bible, it's obvious from Christian theologians that it has been found faulty. Did you read the preface of the NRSV yet? It was backed by 50 denominations.

 

[MyM]

OK, so please explain
1. How did Allah blew into a "chastity".
A Chastity is not an object.
therefore, into what did Allah blew into?

Again, the arabic doesn't give the details. says Nafakhaa feehi We know what Allah has said so we take it as thus and we don't argue as to why. ....chastity=virgin I can read the Arabic myself enough to tell you that what you are insinuating is completely wrong. Again, this version is much better than the BEGOTTON one. Explain how Maryam got pregnant.

 

[SA Huguenot]

So why choose this watered down white washed version, when there are educated people knowing what the verse means?
Virgin Conception of Jesus in the Qur'an - WikiIslam
And Muslims saying what it means
Sarwar: He has also told, as a parable, the story of Mary, daughter of Imran who preserved her virginity and (into whose womb) We breathed Our spirit. She made the words of her Lord and the predictions in His Books come true. She was an obedient woman.
JM Rodwell: And Mary, the daughter of Imran, who kept her maidenhood, and into whose womb we breathed of our spirit, and who believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures, and was one of the devout.
Palmer: And Mary, daughter of Imran, who guarded her private parts, and we breathed therein of our spirit and she verified the words of her Lord and His books, and was of the devout.

Guys, you have problems in your whitewashing of the Quran!

Which is worse, Telling me the Quran was never changed,
or
telling me lies about the true translation of the Quran
I have given you multiple translations of the Quran in english where 12:66 state, "Allah blew into Mary's Private parts / even vagina, but you still want to tell me I need to first become a Muslim to understand the meaning.
Sorry pal, the world is open to Arab speaking Westerners that can not be lied to anymore.
Greetings.

 

[SA Huguenot]

I am not saying that there aren't words of God inside the Bible. There very well could be. I am saying that the Bible has been changed and keeps changing. Men do that not God.

The crucifixion is very clear that Paul created the gospel.
2 Timothy 2:8 "Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel"

you are following Paul not Jesus

Muslims believe in the Quran and over 1400 years IT'S THE SAME. Nothing keeps getting found, nothing keeps turning up years later or centuries later. That's not how Allah works. He sent it down over a period of 23 years. It has been kept. Whereas the Bible, it's obvious from Christian theologians that it has been found faulty. Did you read the preface of the NRSV yet? It was backed by 50 denominations.

But you skip the part where Uthman collected all the Qurans, made a new one, and burned the rest!
Now, if it was all the same, why not give the old ones back?
And Hakim, why did he burned Muhammad's quran?
And the added verses to equal Muhammad with Allah's name?
You know, the reason why there are Sunni and Shiah?

No, you just gave me Muslim propaganda, and no history.
Propaganda is what you get fed by scholars who wants to keep you away from the light, keeping you in the dark.
If they were transparent, they will tell you that not even the Egyptian Golden Quran dating from the 11th century, and your 1928 Egyptian Quran is the same.

Now, concerning the Crucifixion, did you read the 4 gospels that describes the crucifixion?
This was not Paul that wrote it.
Even the Quran say that these people did see the crucifixion!
So, who is now calling Allah a liar?
You, because the gospels are attested by the Quran, and Q4: 157 says they did see Jesus dying on the cross.
Dont you believe in Allah?

 

[SA Huguenot]

I am not saying that there aren't words of God inside the Bible. There very well could be. I am saying that the Bible has been changed and keeps changing. Men do that not God.

The crucifixion is very clear that Paul created the gospel.
2 Timothy 2:8 "Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel"

you are following Paul not Jesus

Muslims believe in the Quran and over 1400 years IT'S THE SAME. Nothing keeps getting found, nothing keeps turning up years later or centuries later. That's not how Allah works. He sent it down over a period of 23 years. It has been kept. Whereas the Bible, it's obvious from Christian theologians that it has been found faulty. Did you read the preface of the NRSV yet? It was backed by 50 denominations.

Your Quran dates from 1924!
Where is Muhammads' quran and we can compare!

 

[MyM]

So why choose this watered down white washed version, when there are educated people knowing what the verse means?
Virgin Conception of Jesus in the Qur'an - WikiIslam
And Muslims saying what it means
Sarwar: He has also told, as a parable, the story of Mary, daughter of Imran who preserved her virginity and (into whose womb) We breathed Our spirit. She made the words of her Lord and the predictions in His Books come true. She was an obedient woman.
JM Rodwell: And Mary, the daughter of Imran, who kept her maidenhood, and into whose womb we breathed of our spirit, and who believed in the words of her Lord and His Scriptures, and was one of the devout.
Palmer: And Mary, daughter of Imran, who guarded her private parts, and we breathed therein of our spirit and she verified the words of her Lord and His books, and was of the devout.

Guys, you have problems in your whitewashing of the Quran!

Which is worse, Telling me the Quran was never changed,
or
telling me lies about the true translation of the Quran
I have given you multiple translations of the Quran in english where 12:66 state, "Allah blew into Mary's Private parts / even vagina, but you still want to tell me I need to first become a Muslim to understand the meaning.
Sorry pal, the world is open to Arab speaking Westerners that can not be lied to anymore.
Greetings.

What is watered down? Nothing. Allah used Jibreel. Does it say how? NO. You are using your own interpretations and we in Islam, cannot do that. Allah blew his spirit into Adam does he say how? no. It's the same likeness he said. BE and it is.

Again, if you knew arabic, the word VAGINA ISN'T EVEN IN THE ARABIC VERSE. the way you mean it So that laugh is on you. Stop trying to use your own logic. It will fail every time.

Again, what is the word BEGOTTEN?????? YOU HAVE YET TO CLARIFY.

 

[SA Huguenot]

Again, the arabic doesn't give the details. says Nafakhaa feehi We know what Allah has said so we take it as thus and we don't argue as to why. ....chastity=virgin I can read the Arabic myself enough to tell you that what you are insinuating is completely wrong. Again, this version is much better than the BEGOTTON one. Explain how Maryam got pregnant.

So, you say Muslim scholars who translated the Quran in English are lying and insulting Allah!
Remember, I did not say this is what it means, I said, "This is what Muslim scholars and Ex Muslim Arabs say!"

Your fight is not with me, but with Muslims that knows the true meaning of the Arab words.
I am just informing you what I found, and I dont like what I learned.

Secondly, I dont want to derail your post, but to claim that the Quran neve changed over 1400 years is simply not true.
Do you know that a goat ate the verses where Allah instructed men visiting Muhammad's wifes, to suck their breasts, because they will then be their children, and Muhammad would trust them not to cheat on him with his wifes?
This from the mouth of Aisha.

Another evidence that Uthman standardised the Quran is the fact that no where in the Quran does it say that adulteres should be stoned!
Yet when Zaid collected the bits and pieces of the Quran from everyone, he could not find this verse, and left it out.

Wow!
Allah could not protect His verses?

Yet, all muslims knows the stoning of adulterers law was a revelation from Allah, yet the quran does not say that.

Q 24: 2 "The woman and the man guilty of zināʾ (for fornication or adultery),- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment."

OK, so please tell me why Muslims stones adulterers, when Allah clearly dont say it!

Another Muslim predicament when evidence shows Uthman changed the Quran.

 

[SA Huguenot]

What is watered down? Nothing. Allah used Jibreel. Does it say how? NO. You are using your own interpretations and we in Islam, cannot do that. Allah blew his spirit into Adam does he say how? no. It's the same likeness he said. BE and it is.

Again, if you knew arabic, the word VAGINA ISN'T EVEN IN THE ARABIC VERSE. So that laugh is on you. Stop trying to use your own logic. It will fail every time.

Again, what is the word BEGOTTEN?????? YOU HAVE YET TO CLARIFY.

Do you agree that the 1924 Quran you have is not the same as Muhammad's?
Then I will go over to begotten.
No problem pal.