Koran:...Jesus is the Son...

[Apple Pie]

Where is your evidence for any of this. From the research of what scholar did you compile this stuff or are you wikiislaming it again. The Quran with the Uthmani script is to still intact. It still has the blood of Uthman the 3rd calipha, companion of the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him on the pages. You have no evidence and you are just making blanket statements.

Uthman was a companion, it was the companions who wrote for the Messenger of Allah. They did it all through his life. Uthman a close companion of the Messenger of Allah. The fourth best man ever after the Prophets and Messengers.

You are implying that somehow the companions who wrote it originally on whatever they could find. whether rocks or camel hide whatever. Among them are Zaid ibn Haritha, Ali ibn abu talib, zaid ibn Thabit, Umar ibn Kattab, Jafar, Uthman etc. These same companions commissioned the putting of all these scraps into one book. And to secure it in the speech of Quraishi dialect which is a part of his sunnah.

Explain to me if they compiled it in the time of Uthman. That you came to the understanding that it was over a century.

Do not believe in his life and times. It is funny that the worlds greatest minds and leaders have spoken about him. You are the one who is hard pressed to prove anypoint.

Check out your islamicawareness brothers...

 

[Apple Pie]

It is interesting to me you use the term "Pagan" as though you know what that means. Paganism originated as a worship of a polytheistic system of Earth Gods and thus can not be applied to the Monotheistic ideals of Islam.

Secondly your posts, threads and accusations against our brothers in Allah are not befitting Christ as they are not acts of compassion or love nor do they glorify God. Rather they glorify your own personal "crusade" for validation of your personal translations of a long established set of tenets and beliefs. Truly we are to know our brothers by the fruit they bear, and you sir are producing very bad fruit indeed. Meanwhile I find many brothers of the muslim faith who offer you peace, love, understanding and knowledge. These are all things of God. These are good fruits.

I myself am not muslim but I follow the will and direction of Yahweh and your acts do not suit a son of God. Rather more suiting to a wolf in sheeps clothing, a false prophet speaking false words in the name of God. Your lips speak his name but your heart is far from him.

I do not say these things to hurt, harm or anger but rather to call them to your attention in front of brothers of God and have you change your ways so they become pleasing to God.

Truly love God and your neighbour!

Please tell us why English words are inserted to "represent" Arabic words that are not even present in the Koranic text.

Be honest with yourself...

 

[astarath]

Please ask yourself is this a labour of love and brotherhood or merely an act of hate and seperation.

The bible from which you read holds many contradictory verses and mistranslations itself? Do you challenge these as well or merely those of our brothers?

 

[Apple Pie]

Please ask yourself is this a labour of love and brotherhood or merely an act of hate and seperation.

The bible from which you read holds many contradictory verses and mistranslations itself? Do you challenge these as well or merely those of our brothers?

As the title of this thread clearly states...the discussion is bound to the Koran stating that Jesus is the Son.

Do you think that you can hold to this discussion...?

 

[astarath]

I can and the point holds to the same for this reason. The same fallacies that exist in translation through the text that you hold as correct may also exist in th Qu'ran. If this point is true you are no longer standing on such a high pulpit casting doubt on a single text but rather excepting the mistranslations cause arguments and serve no true purpose other than division!! But you disagree of course...

 

[Apple Pie]

I can and the point holds to the same for this reason. The same fallacies that exist in translation through the text that you hold as correct may also exist in th Qu'ran. If this point is true you are no longer standing on such a high pulpit casting doubt on a single text but rather excepting the mistranslations cause arguments and serve no true purpose other than division!! But you disagree of course...

Please bring forth the Arabic words that you feel are somehow falacious...

 

[astarath]

I am not questioning the arabic words I am merely stating that any translation of any may be a misconception of the original meaning as no one can say what the original meaning of the word entails.

 

[Apple Pie]

I am not questioning the arabic words I am merely stating that any translation of any may be a misconception of the original meaning as no one can say what the original meaning of the word entails.

In other words...you have no verifiable position against our assertion.

Thanks...

 

[astarath]

My position is verified in this statement: If you can admit there is fallacy in the bible as well as the koran then you are no longer in a position to judge truths as you are no comparing one mistranslated text with another.

 

[Apple Pie]

My position is verified in this statement: If you can admit there is fallacy in the bible as well as the koran then you are no longer in a position to judge truths as you are no comparing one mistranslated text with another.

Please show us exactly were there is a "mis-translation"...

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

​

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladunlahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son,truly his what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.

 

[astarath]

You are refering solely to the Koran for the mistranslation here is a fact from the bible, at the point of translation from the verbal aramaic to the written greek the term "Allah' was removed from the bible even though it was used by Christ himself as an appropriate name for God. This link conveniently also allowed the early church to seperate followers of Allah (Islam) and Pauline Christianity. Oddly enough were it not for this specific issue of mistranslation there is a good chance that today neither you nor the muslim people you attempt to prove wrong would have anything of value to argue about as you would see each other as followers of one and the same God.

 

[Apple Pie]

You are refering solely to the Koran for the mistranslation here is a fact from the bible, at the point of translation from the verbal aramaic to the written greek the term "Allah' was removed from the bible even though it was used by Christ himself as an appropriate name for God. This link conveniently also allowed the early church to seperate followers of Allah (Islam) and Pauline Christianity. Oddly enough were it not for this specific issue of mistranslation there is a good chance that today neither you nor the muslim people you attempt to prove wrong would have anything of value to argue about as you would see each other as followers of one and the same God.

Translation:

You don't read Arabic...nor do even remotely know where it could be "mis-translated"...

Right?

You have your golden opportunity to show us specifically where it has been incorrectly translated in 4.171...

What are you waiting for...?

 

[astarath]

You also have a golden opportunity to disprove the fallacy of the text to which you compare the Qu'ran and hold as truth by which to judge. I assume since you seem to have some knowledge into the linguistics of ancient languages you are also aware that my previous statement holds true. If this is the case than any questioning you make in regards to the scriptures of islam tread no water because the points you refer to from the old testament call God to be Allah!?!?

 

[Apple Pie]

You also have a golden opportunity to disprove the fallacy of the text to which you compare the Qu'ran and hold as truth by which to judge. I assume since you seem to have some knowledge into the linguistics of ancient languages you are also aware that my previous statement holds true. If this is the case than any questioning you make in regards to the scriptures of islam tread no water because the points you refer to from the old testament call God to be Allah!?!?

Can you at least show us the Arabic word for "Son"....?

 

[Apple Pie]

Guess not...

 

[astarath]

no...can you show me the original word for reference to God used in the first century A.D.? The pharisetic and sadducetic classes used any of the multiple terms coined in hebrew to define God yet the common term used by your run of the mill person was etiher Allah or Adonai.

 

[astarath]

Interesting..I thought google search was faster than this? Read quickly to find the truth..it will set you free. To my brothers in Islam I say Salaam to you I must go but do not allow this man to anger you rather confront him only in love and truth!

 

[Apple Pie]

Are there any cognizant Muslims who would like to discuss why Jesus is proclaimed as the Son in their book of faith...?

Thanks...

 

[maro]

يأهل الكتب
O People of the Scripture​

لا تغلوا في دينكم​

do not commit excess in your religion ​

ولا تقولوا على الله إلا الحق​

or say about Allāh except the truth. ​

إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله وكلمته​

The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allāh and His word ​

ألقيها إلى مريم​

which He directed to Mary ​

وروح منه​

and a soul [created at a command] from Him. ​

فءامنوا بالله ورسله​

So believe in Allāh and His messengers. ​

ولا تقولوا ثلثة​

And do not say, "Three"​

انتهوا خيرا لكم​

desist “ it is better for you. ​

إنما الله إله وحد​

Indeed, Allāh is but one God. ​

سبحنه أن يكون له ولد​

Exalted is He above having a son​

له ما في السموت وما في الأرض​

To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. ​

وكفى بالله وكيلا​

And sufficient is Allāh as Disposer of affairs.​

 

[Apple Pie]

يأهل الكتب

O People of the Scripture​

لا تغلوا في دينكم​

do not commit excess in your religion ​

ولا تقولوا على الله إلا الحق​

or say about Allāh except the truth. ​

إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله وكلمته​

The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allāh and His word ​

ألقيها إلى مريم​

which He directed to Mary ​

وروح منه​

and a soul [created at a command] from Him. ​

فءامنوا بالله ورسله​

So believe in Allāh and His messengers. ​

ولا تقولوا ثلثة​

And do not say, "Three"​

انتهوا خيرا لكم​

desist “ it is better for you. ​

إنما الله إله وحد​

Indeed, Allāh is but one God. ​

سبحنه أن يكون له ولد​

Exalted is He above having a son​

له ما في السموت وما في الأرض​

To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. ​

وكفى بالله وكيلا​

And sufficient is Allāh as Disposer of affairs.​

There are no Arabic words rendered as "exalted is he above having a son"....