Koran:...Jesus is the Son...

[Apple Pie]

Apple Pie, the "cognizant Muslim" you're looking for is right here. Ready and waiting. Why do you keep logging off, once i log in?

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

​

 

[AbuQuteiba]

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله​

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله

ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

​

Exactly.

 

[Apple Pie]

Exactly.

Exactly what.....?

We asked for you to show the word "Son" in this ayah...and your reply was "exactly"...?!

 

[YmirGF]

Exactly what.....?

We asked for you to show the word "Son" in this ayah...and your reply was "exactly"...?!

Sadly Champion, Apple Pie has you there. I know you meant that it does NOT contain the word as Apple Pie insists it does, but your answer simply fed right into his/her hands.

Upon reviewing this thread, I have concluded that FullyVeiled is correct in that you should not respond to this kind of thread but I thought I would explain why not for the benefit of our home audience.

The simple premise as outlined by Apple Pie is known as a Burden of Proof Argument and also known as Appeal to Ignorance ("Ad Ignorantiam")

1. Claim X is presented by side A and the burden of proof actually rests on side B.
2. Side B claims that X is false because there is no proof for X.

In many situations, one side has the burden of proof resting on it. This side is obligated to provide evidence for its position. The claim of the other side, the one that does not bear the burden of proof, is assumed to be true unless proven otherwise. The difficulty in such cases is determining which side, if any, the burden of proof rests on. In many cases, settling this issue can be a matter of significant debate. In some cases the burden of proof is set by the situation. For example, in American law a person is assumed to be innocent until proven guilty (hence the burden of proof is on the prosecution). As another example, in debate the burden of proof is placed on the affirmative team. As a final example, in most cases the burden of proof rests on those who claim something exists (such as Bigfoot, psychic powers, universals, sense data, and Jesus Christ in the Qur’an).

(For more on Logical Fallasies see The Nizkor Project.)

So the bottom line is that Apple Pie must prove conclusively that his/her assertion is correct because it is he/she that is making the claim. It is NOT up to Muslim’s to prove that the concept is INCORRECT OR IN ERROR in any way. Understand? Based on the premise, you may or may not be able to prove one way or the other which side is correct. I suspect that is why Apple Pie has baited the trap in this manner, as the knee-jerk reaction would be to argue the point, and thereby falling right into the trap. It’s simple human nature.

So the question should be, "Has Apple Pie proven his/her point?" Indeed he/she has supplied some "evidence" however it is tainted because it comes from a website of questionable pedigree. There is simply no other information given to buttress the claim, so in this regard, the assertion is not proven and he/she has failed to make his/her case in a logical conclusive manner. Playing cat and mouse with the competition is simply not "cricket" as it were and although immensely entertaining it just doesn't validate the original claims.

My suggestions?

1. Learn logic structures inside and out. Heck I know logic fairly well and still make mistakes. Ah well, to err is human.
2. Watch where you are standing. Is it in a bog or quicksand or are you on solid ground?
3. As FullyVeiled Muslimah commented: Do Not Feed the Trolls.

:149: :troll: :149:

Oh well, I could be wrong, but that is the way this seems to me.

 

[Apple Pie]

Perhaps you could help out champion...and show us the Arabic word for "Son" in 4.171...

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Exactly what.....?

We asked for you to show the word "Son" in this ayah...and your reply was "exactly"...?!

No you didn't "" . You asked me to do that in the other section. Here, you just posted the verse. I think you can find the word "son" on your own. You do "speak" Arabic don't you?

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Sadly Champion, Apple Pie has you there. I know you meant that it does NOT contain the word as Apple Pie insists it does, but your answer simply fed right into his/her hands. [quote]

I'm sorry Paul, that verse does in fact contain the word "son". But he didn't ask me to show it to him until just now. So i'm guessing my answer didn't feed into Apple's hands, right?

Thank you for the suggestions. Take Care.

 

[TashaN]

Dear Champion, just ignore him because this will just go on and on in circles because we answered him before but he went off-topic once we gave him the direct clear answer for his original OP. If anyone is interested to see the answers, it's in the link below.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33018


I just hope that the Muslims will read the Quran and follow it.

[63] And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!". (Quran 25:63)


http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33018

 

[Apple Pie]

No you didn't "" . You asked me to do that in the other section. Here, you just posted the verse. I think you can find the word "son" on your own. You do "speak" Arabic don't you?

And...your reply of "exactly"....was in response to what....exactly....?

 

[Apple Pie]

Sadly Champion, Apple Pie has you there. I know you meant that it does NOT contain the word as Apple Pie insists it does, but your answer simply fed right into his/her hands. [quote]

I'm sorry Paul, that verse does in fact contain the word "son". But he didn't ask me to show it to him until just now. So i'm guessing my answer didn't feed into Apple's hands, right?

Thank you for the suggestions. Take Care.

Now that you finally admit that 4.171 contains that Arabic word rendered as "Son"....could you please point it out for us....?

 

[Apple Pie]

Dear Champion, just ignore him because this will just go on and on in circles because we answered him before but he went off-topic once we gave him the direct clear answer for his original OP. If anyone is interested to see the answers, it's in the link below.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33018


I just hope that the Muslims will read the Quran and follow it.

[63] And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!". (Quran 25:63)

It's quite clear that you understand that Jesus is called his Son in 4.171...

Just be honest with yourself and admit this.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

And...your reply of "exactly"....was in response to what....exactly....?

To your ignorance.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Now that you finally admit that 4.171 contains that Arabic word rendered as "Son"....could you please point it out for us....?

"finally"? Yeah, okay. Why? Can't you find it yourself? And what happened to the Arabic? A little too much for you?

 

[Apple Pie]

"finally"? Yeah, okay. Why? Can't you find it yourself? And what happened to the Arabic? A little too much for you?

Show us...

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

​

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Show us...

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله​

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله

ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

​

I think all Arabic speaking members can see it fine. Can you?

 

[Apple Pie]

I think all Arabic speaking members can see it fine. Can you?

Show us the word Son...not that you can, that is....but try...

 

[AbuQuteiba]

Show us the word Son...not that you can, that is....but try...

Why do you keep asking me to if you think i can't?

 

[Apple Pie]

Why do you keep asking me to if you think i can't?

You're stalling...

 

[Apple Pie]

Why do you keep asking me to if you think i can't?

To demonstrate that you don't have a clue as to what you speak...

 

[AbuQuteiba]

To demonstrate that you don't have a clue as to what you speak...

Hehe, yeah. That coming from you, alhamdu-Lillah, i'm not in the least bit insulted. It's funny how thats been said to you over a hundred times, by Muslims and Christians alike, but never once to me.