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"Lack of belief"

Pudding

Well-Known Member
I don't lack any knowledge, I have knowledge. I achieve it by knowing stuff. I can't tell you how to achieve lacks--I don't believe in them. I don't have knowledge of subjects that I haven't been exposed to. I have my knowledge, not anyone else's.
You don't have knowledge of subjects that you haven't been exposed to
is same as saying
you lack the knowledge of subjects that you haven't been exposed to.

Don't have is the same meaning of lack, which also means without.

Lack
Noun
1. the state of being without or not having enough of something.
Verb
1. be without or deficient in.

You say you don't lack any knowledge, then go on saying you don't have knowledge of subjects that you haven't been exposed to, that is contradiction in itself.
Saying you don't have is same as saying you lack.
It is contradiction you say you don't lack but then go on saying you lack(don't have).

Are you still going to claim you don't lack any knowledge?
 
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Pudding

Well-Known Member
@Willamena, most of the times i find most of your post to be illogical, you also tends to write in over complicated and nonsensical. Is english your native language?
Not only you, there're also other posters here whose writing style is similar to you.

English is not my native language, is it my inability to comprehend those posts and they really does make sense?
Nonetheless the writing style is weird and many times it doesn't make sense to me...
 

PackJason

I make up facts.
@Willamena, most of the times i find most of your post to be illogical, you also tends to write in over complicated and nonsensical. Is english your native language?
Not only you, there're also other posters here whose writing style is similar to you.

English is not my native language, is it my inability to comprehend those posts and they really does make sense?
Nonetheless the writing style is weird and many times it doesn't make sense to me...

You're not alone. I also can't make sense out of most of her(?) posts.
 
If you scanned the brains of everybody on earth who for some reason are not theists what "brain activity" do you think they have in common?

You would notice a clear difference between someone ignorant of the concept of god, and people who are very familiar with the concept (like you) who have reached a decision to not believe in god. You cannot 'lack belief' in a concept that you understand. Familiarity with the concept 'god exists' requires you to accept this as true, or consciously reject the idea that it is definitely true. You don't lack belief on this you hold a belief.

For example:

"Is there a difference between believing and merely understanding an idea?Descartes thought so. He considered the acceptance and rejection of an idea to be alternative outcomes of an effortful assessment process that occurs subsequent to the automatic comprehension of that idea. This article examined Spinoza's alternative suggestion that (a) the acceptance of an idea is part of the automatic comprehension of that idea and (b) the rejection of an idea occurs subsequent to, and more effortfully than, its acceptance.

Spinoza argued that comprehending an idea did entail accepting that idea, however briefly. "Will and intellect are one and the same thing," he wrote, and thus, "I deny that a man makes no affirmation in so far as he has a perception" (1677/1982, pp. 97 and 99). Although Descartes's assumptions about the symmetry of acceptance and rejection and the disunity of comprehension and belief have silently dominated scientific thinking about these issues, psychological evidence suggests that Spinoza's hypotheses may have been closer to the truth. Findings from a multitude of research literatures converge on a single point: People are credulous creatures who find it very easy to believe and very difficult to doubt. In fact, believing is so easy, and perhaps so inevitable, that it may be more like involuntary comprehension than it is like rational assessment."

How Mental Systems Believe, Daniel T. Gilbert (February 1991 • American Psychologist)
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
All atheists who say they lack belief in the existence of gods have a conception of what gods are.
Exactly. And that's why babies aren't atheists. Atheists have a lack in belief in God/gods that they do have conceptual understanding of. It's not simply lacking belief, but lacking belief in something that they have a description or some understanding of.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
You would notice a clear difference between someone ignorant of the concept of god, and people who are very familiar with the concept (like you) who have reached a decision to not believe in god.
Weak atheists haven't reached any decision to not believe in the existence of gods. Not believing in the existence of gods is our natural state until or if we become theists and start believing in the existence of gods.
You cannot 'lack belief' in a concept that you understand.
I understand the concept of gods and I still lack belief in the existence of gods. It's not the concept I lack belief in it's the existence of gods.
Familiarity with the concept 'god exists' requires you to accept this as true,
LOL it's not the existence of the concept "god exists" I don't accept as existing it's the gods themselves.
"Is there a difference between believing and merely understanding an idea?Descartes thought so. He considered the acceptance and rejection of an idea to be alternative outcomes of an effortful assessment process that occurs subsequent to the automatic comprehension of that idea. This article examined Spinoza's alternative suggestion that (a) the acceptance of an idea is part of the automatic comprehension of that idea and (b) the rejection of an idea occurs subsequent to, and more effortfully than, its acceptance.

Spinoza argued that comprehending an idea did entail accepting that idea, however briefly. "Will and intellect are one and the same thing," he wrote, and thus, "I deny that a man makes no affirmation in so far as he has a perception" (1677/1982, pp. 97 and 99). Although Descartes's assumptions about the symmetry of acceptance and rejection and the disunity of comprehension and belief have silently dominated scientific thinking about these issues, psychological evidence suggests that Spinoza's hypotheses may have been closer to the truth. Findings from a multitude of research literatures converge on a single point: People are credulous creatures who find it very easy to believe and very difficult to doubt. In fact, believing is so easy, and perhaps so inevitable, that it may be more like involuntary comprehension than it is like rational assessment."

How Mental Systems Believe, Daniel T. Gilbert (February 1991 • American Psychologist)
Does this mean that people automatically believe in the existence of every god they have ever heard of?
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Scientifically.

Belief can ultimately be reduced to some kind of 'brain activity' after all. Agree?
There was some research done a while ago (by atheist scientists, if I remember correctly, doing fMRI and such), that showed that unbelief also have a brain activity. To "unbelieve" something isn't just a dead neural activity, but activated other areas than belief. So really, "lack of belief" does have a mental state in the brain, according to that study.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
You would notice a clear difference between someone ignorant of the concept of god, and people who are very familiar with the concept (like you) who have reached a decision to not believe in god. You cannot 'lack belief' in a concept that you understand. Familiarity with the concept 'god exists' requires you to accept this as true, or consciously reject the idea that it is definitely true. You don't lack belief on this you hold a belief.

For example:

"Is there a difference between believing and merely understanding an idea?Descartes thought so. He considered the acceptance and rejection of an idea to be alternative outcomes of an effortful assessment process that occurs subsequent to the automatic comprehension of that idea. This article examined Spinoza's alternative suggestion that (a) the acceptance of an idea is part of the automatic comprehension of that idea and (b) the rejection of an idea occurs subsequent to, and more effortfully than, its acceptance.

Spinoza argued that comprehending an idea did entail accepting that idea, however briefly. "Will and intellect are one and the same thing," he wrote, and thus, "I deny that a man makes no affirmation in so far as he has a perception" (1677/1982, pp. 97 and 99). Although Descartes's assumptions about the symmetry of acceptance and rejection and the disunity of comprehension and belief have silently dominated scientific thinking about these issues, psychological evidence suggests that Spinoza's hypotheses may have been closer to the truth. Findings from a multitude of research literatures converge on a single point: People are credulous creatures who find it very easy to believe and very difficult to doubt. In fact, believing is so easy, and perhaps so inevitable, that it may be more like involuntary comprehension than it is like rational assessment."

How Mental Systems Believe, Daniel T. Gilbert (February 1991 • American Psychologist)
I do in fact lack a belief in the existence of god.
Is your "argument" the false dichotomy that one lacking belief either rejects or does not understand?
If so, you are just plain flat out wrong.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Exactly. And that's why babies aren't atheists. Atheists have a lack in belief in God/gods that they do have conceptual understanding of. It's not simply lacking belief, but lacking belief in something that they have a description or some understanding of.
please present from where you derived this particular conditional modifier.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Scientifically.

For a scientifical conclusion to be possible, you will have to specify your parameters first. What does count as "being the same" for your purposes?


Belief can ultimately be reduced to some kind of 'brain activity' after all. Agree?

Depending on how you build your model and your expectations, that is certainly possible. Not necessary, but possible.

Is lack of belief brain activity at all? Does it need some sort of detectable... lack of activity? How can it be detected, if so?
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Exactly. And that's why babies aren't atheists. Atheists have a lack in belief in God/gods that they do have conceptual understanding of. It's not simply lacking belief, but lacking belief in something that they have a description or some understanding of.
That is an arbitrary, unnecessary and IMO undesirable restriction of the concept of "atheist", however.
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
There was some research done a while ago (by atheist scientists, if I remember correctly, doing fMRI and such), that showed that unbelief also have a brain activity. To "unbelieve" something isn't just a dead neural activity, but activated other areas than belief. So really, "lack of belief" does have a mental state in the brain, according to that study.
Define "unbelief".
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
It's not necessary to know what gods are in order to not have a belief in them any more than it is necessary to know what a car is in order to not have one.
But you have to know what it means with "gods" to not have belief in them. If someone define "gods" as a collection of rocks outside their house, you would have to reject the definition of their gods rather than the existence of the concept. Rocks exist, so you don't lack belief in rocks. You lack belief in gods. So their definition of gods as rocks is rejected rather than gods being unbelieved in. In other words, you know what concepts of "gods" that you lack belief in.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
That is an arbitrary, unnecessary and IMO undesirable restriction of the concept of "atheist", however.
It's not because you don't lack belief in gods as rocks. Someone saying gods are rocks have the wrong definition, and it's not unbelief or lack of belief that you reject in that situation but rather the definition. Lack of belief in gods mean that you lack of belief in the concepts of gods, not just any definition of gods. Some definitions of gods you would have to reject as proper definitions rather than "unbelieving" the concepts. You do believe rocks exist, don't you? So the god as rocks claim would be a rejection of the claim of rocks being gods rather than unbelief in rocks.

Here's the deal.

1. "God" and "gods" are words.
2. They have meanings.
3. The meaning points to a concept.

An atheist lacking belief in god/gods lacks belief in all those things in different ways, but lacking belief in "god" as a word really means rejection of arbitrary definitions of the word, not lacking belief in a word (which would be ludicrous).
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
But you have to know what it means with "gods" to not have belief in them. If someone define "gods" as a collection of rocks outside their house, you would have to reject the definition of their gods rather than the existence of the concept. Rocks exist, so you don't lack belief in rocks. You lack belief in gods. So their definition of gods as rocks is rejected rather than gods being unbelieved in. In other words, you know what concepts of "gods" that you lack belief in.
Are you claiming that someone who lacks a knowledge of any god concept actually believes in them?
How does that work?
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
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