Ladies on the forum, do you consider yourself to be a feminist?

[MysticSang'ha]

Being fed up with men =/= being dissatisfied with patriarchy. The aim of feminism is not to get even, but to get equal. It's not about knocking men down a peg, but deconstructing gender stereotypes that are oppressive to both women and men (although women get the worst of it).

This perception of feminism being some kind of adversarial movement pitting women against men is really bizarre to me. The enemy of feminism is patriarchy, not men. Patriarchy sucks for everybody, not just women. By challenging patriarchal attitudes, we hope we are also helping the men we know and love. My husband loves cooking but hates mowing the lawn. I hate cooking but love working outdoors. Because we are both feminists, we're both happier than we would otherwise be, doing what comes most naturally to us as individuals, rather than trying to follow our prescribed gender roles.

I expect those who think feminist philosophy promotes any animosity to men in general don't know much about it.

Agreed. 100%. :yes:

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed. 100%. :yes:

How much diversity is there among those who are feminist, ie, those who adopt the label?
How much deviation from your definition would make them faux feminists?
(Ain't try'n to stir up trouble. Just wonder'n.)

 

[dawny0826]

Being fed up with men =/= being dissatisfied with patriarchy. The aim of feminism is not to get even, but to get equal. It's not about knocking men down a peg, but deconstructing gender stereotypes that are oppressive to both women and men (although women get the worst of it).

This perception of feminism being some kind of adversarial movement pitting women against men is really bizarre to me. The enemy of feminism is patriarchy, not men. Patriarchy sucks for everybody, not just women. By challenging patriarchal attitudes, we hope we are also helping the men we know and love. My husband loves cooking but hates mowing the lawn. I hate cooking but love working outdoors. Because we are both feminists, we're both happier than we would otherwise be, doing what comes most naturally to us as individuals, rather than trying to follow our prescribed gender roles.

I expect those who think feminist philosophy promotes any animosity to men in general don't know much about it.

You're preaching to the choir and falsely assuming that I don't understand what feminism entails. I'm well aware, thank you.

I've argued that misandry isn't a one size fits all. One COULD be misandrist in their mind set and also be a feminist. One could be a feminist for a plethora of reasons. Feminist movements seek to accomplish like goals, but an individual's reasoning for getting involved may vary from the next.

I certainly didn't post anything to suggest that I was of the mindset that all feminists are misandrist. I understand the difference between the two but am open to reconciliation of the two as well.

I'm simply putting out there that misandry isn't always projected in extreme.

 

[Koldo]

Analogy time:

A lot of my professional work is about preventing motor vehicle collisions. I like to think that I've made injury prevention a priority for me. Now... if someone came up to me and told me that if I don't take part in his campaign against being crushed by furniture (26 deaths per year in the US) along with my work about motor vehicle collisions (32,000 deaths per year in the US), then I haven't really made injury prevention a priority, I'd look at him like he had two heads.

Out of curiosity, have you ever taken part in any feminist manifestation?

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh, men can post here, too? 'Cause I consider myself a feminist, in that I see no effective difference between feminism and sexual egalitarianism, except that one is far easier to say.

 

[Riverwolf]

One COULD be misandrist in their mind set and also be a feminist.

Actually, no you can't.

Feminism is about equality between men and women. If someone considers him/herself a feminist and acts in a way that is sexist towards men, then that person is violating equality between men and women, and thus is not really a feminist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

How much diversity is there among those who are feminist, ie, those who adopt the label?
How much deviation from your definition would make them faux feminists?
(Ain't try'n to stir up trouble. Just wonder'n.)

There are political and cultural movements under the umbrella of feminism that basically agree on a few points, from my understanding. Third World feminism, or what some have called womanism or transnational feminism, is a subset that seeks to build relationships with white middle class women who may or may not be aware how women in these nations have been ignored.

The diversity is as wide as culture, since women exist all around the globe, and experience inequality in a variety of ways. There's underground movements (like riot grrl), as well as eco-feminists and individualist-feminists. I tend to part ways with the anti-pornography feminists and personally adopt what has been categorized as sex-positive feminism.

But all hold one thing in common, the recognition of gender inequality. Some conservative feminists see that as part of a stable civilization and seek to celebrate being a woman within that paradigm. The response to gender inequality is as varied as there are categorizations. Which can number to a whole-heck-of-a-lot.

This is why it's strange and sad at the same time that people can be so quick to assume that feminists are of maybe just a couple of stripes....that feminists are either "reasonable" or "radical". There exists an astounding number of richness, diversity, philosophy, and political movements within feminism itself that I find exciting. To narrow feminism as a whole down to a single-minded perspective misses the point that gender inequality is entirely possible in language, in religion, in family law, in post-modernism, in economics, in evolutionary science, and on and on and on.

 

[dawny0826]

Actually, no you can't.

Feminism is about equality between men and women. If someone considers him/herself a feminist and acts in a way that is sexist towards men, then that person is violating equality between men and women, and thus is not really a feminist.

You're slaying me.

People, I know what feminism is.

And as I've stated multiple times, a misandrist doesn't necessarily PROJECT hatred for men or boys. A misandrist may FEEL a certain way but chooses how they project these feelings.

I could HATE men with a passion but not reject the notion of gender equality. In fact, my hatred towards men could fuel my desire to push for equality. I don't have to be an ******* towards men, even if I don't particularly care for them.

I hate abortion. I have issues with people who aren't responsible and choose to abort to deal with their mistakes. I have strong opinions on women who make these types of choices. HOWEVER, my feelings towards them doesn't negate my belief that women should still have the right to choose for themselves.

A misandrist may hate men because he/she is envious of them. Envy or resentment could fuel their hatred. But, that doesn't mean that this indiviudal is a mean, piece of **** who discriminates against men and boys. Their misandristic nature may only apply to thought and feeling.

This isn't one size fits all.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

You're slaying me.

People, I know what feminism is.

And as I've stated multiple times, a misandrist doesn't necessarily PROJECT hatred for men or boys. A misandrist may FEEL a certain way but chooses how they project these feelings.

I could HATE men with a passion but not reject the notion of gender equality. In fact, my hatred towards men could fuel my desire to push for equality. I don't have to be an ******* towards men, even if I don't particularly care for them.

I hate abortion. I have issues with people who aren't responsible and choose to abort to deal with their mistakes. I have strong opinions on women who make these types of choices. HOWEVER, my feelings towards them doesn't negate my belief that women should still have the right to choose for themselves.

A misandrist may hate men because he/she is envious of them. Envy or resentment could fuel their hatred. But, that doesn't mean that this indiviudal is a mean, piece of **** who discriminates against men and boys. Their misandristic nature may only apply to thought and feeling.

This isn't one size fits all.

I think a more comparable analogy is hating homosexuals across the board while fighting for the legalization of same sex marriage. I have a difficult time reconciling that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Out of curiosity, have you ever taken part in any feminist manifestation?

"Feminist manifestation"? Like a seance?

 

[MysticSang'ha]

"Feminist manifestation"? Like a seance?

C'mon Jeff. A "feminist manifestation" is like a good ol' fashioned bra burning, complete with screaming and gnashing of teeth.

Don't forget to include the wordplay in the advertisements like "herstory" and "wymman."

 

[Alceste]

C'mon Jeff. A "feminist manifestation" is like a good ol' fashioned bra burning, complete with screaming and gnashing of teeth.

Don't forget to include the wordplay in the advertisements like "herstory" and "wymman."

That spelling reminds me... I changed this:

[youtube]1jiwZCskgNE[/youtube]
I'm a Woman by Peggy Lee - YouTube

Into this:

[youtube]_zJ47tGsyMY[/youtube]
Dr. Phil Harmonic's Jug Band - "I'm a Womyn" - YouTube

Good for a giggle, I hope.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

LOL! Thanks for the spelling correction!

Radical feminists are appeased. We can continue the discussion now.

 

[Koldo]

"Feminist manifestation"? Like a seance?

HAHAHAHAHA. No, no, no.

Seriously, this made me laugh.

In portuguese we have a word called 'manifestação' which ( i thought ) could be literally translated as 'manifestation', as it common to translate 'ção' into 'tion'.

The word 'manifestação' is more properly translated as '(street) protest'.

 

[Koldo]

C'mon Jeff. A "feminist manifestation" is like a good ol' fashioned bra burning, complete with screaming and gnashing of teeth.

Don't forget to include the wordplay in the advertisements like "herstory" and "wymman."

Well...i certainly wasn't thinking of Jeff burning bras.....that much i assure you of.

 

[Alceste]

HAHAHAHAHA. No, no, no.

Seriously, this made me laugh.

In portuguese we have a word called 'manifestação' which ( i thought ) could be literally translated as 'manifestation', as it common to translate 'ção' into 'tion'.

The word 'manifestação' is more properly translated as '(street) protest'.

I don't think there has been a feminist street protest for me to participate in. the issues feminism covers are too broad. Protests tend to deal with one issue at a time. Occupy was an exception to the rule. I'm sure it was brimming with feminists, but I didn't go.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

I think a more comparable analogy is hating homosexuals across the board while fighting for the legalization of same sex marriage. I have a difficult time reconciling that.

I wouldn't compare it to that since homosexuals are an oppressed group.

I kind of get what she means, I followed a prostitute on YouTube who was a feminist as well, and she was damn honest and angry and tactless about her views on men, I would probably even say that some would call her a misandrist although I wouldn't call her one, but judging by others sensitivity I would say even some people on this forum would see her that way. Bare in mind there is also a lot of things she has said that I don't agree with but I wouldn't say she wasn't a feminist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

HAHAHAHAHA. No, no, no.

Seriously, this made me laugh.

In portuguese we have a word called 'manifestação' which ( i thought ) could be literally translated as 'manifestation', as it common to translate 'ção' into 'tion'.

The word 'manifestação' is more properly translated as '(street) protest'.

I've never been to any protests, no. I've been to a few memorial services for the Ecole Polytechnique massacre, but nothing I would call a protest.

The Fourteen not Forgotten - The Iron Warrior

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I wouldn't compare it to that since homosexuals are an oppressed group.

I kind of get what she means, I followed a prostitute on YouTube who was a feminist as well, and she was damn honest and angry and tactless about her views on men, I would probably even say that some would call her a misandrist although I wouldn't call her one, but judging by others sensitivity I would say even some people on this forum would see her that way. Bare in mind there is also a lot of things she has said that I don't agree with but I wouldn't say she wasn't a feminist.

Do you have a link you can PM me? I'd like to see it.

I get what you and Dawny are saying. I just see the two as mutually exclusive, and respectfully disagree. The enemy of feminism isn't men, but patriarchy and inequality. But here we are again.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

just a little joke, nevermind