Ladies on the forum, do you consider yourself to be a feminist?

[Me Myself]

I've found that being a feminist has gotten me laid much more with better quality sex partners. This in itself is worth it.

Also, intelligent women like a sense of humor.

I remember when I was little ere was a large line to drink water from the water fountain (or however the free water drink thingy is called in english >_>) girls went there first because they were allowed by teachers to go first because of the usual tradition. All boys argued while waiting in line. Some arguments upset me and I argued back, then the girls started telling me I could go ahead of them in the line. I was young and stupid and thirsty and I'll admit I started saying a lot of stupid sexist things that quickly made all the girls agree to just let me drink before all of em remaning in line

Yars later in college, a teacher said he was amazed by the lack of "chivalry" from us men and said no men should leave his chair until all women did so, it was a college chat and there was food inside. The second the women left we were allowed to stand and go eat the free lunch there was for everyone assiting the chat.... Only that there was nothing left. Women took it all. Not that anyone thought it was important though... Except everyone hungry. The women juust smiled and layed "cute" and it was as if nothing had happened.

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't know why I have to explain this to someone who calls themself a feminist but here I go. Feminism is not as simple as believing men and women are equal that would make a lot of woman haters "feminists."

So... believing that men and women are equal makes woman haters, who would naturally not believe men and women are equal, egalitarian?

First of all feminism is about women's issues/experiences and educating yourself on those issues. It is a process of unlearning sexism and woman hating and patriarchal conditioning. not a passing thought of "oh yeah men and women are equal." It requires you to be critical of male centric-ism. It also means you believe in male privilege and challenging that privilege. And it also means giving women their space to discuss issues with each other and supporting our sisterhood, in other words it means knowing when to butt out.

Strange. I've never heard that definition of feminism before. Tell me where you heard that.

 

[Alceste]

I remember when I was little ere was a large line to drink water from the water fountain (or however the free water drink thingy is called in english >_>) girls went there first because they were allowed by teachers to go first because of the usual tradition. All boys argued while waiting in line. Some arguments upset me and I argued back, then the girls started telling me I could go ahead of them in the line. I was young and stupid and thirsty and I'll admit I started saying a lot of stupid sexist things that quickly made all the girls agree to just let me drink before all of em remaning in line

Yars later in college, a teacher said he was amazed by the lack of "chivalry" from us men and said no men should leave his chair until all women did so, it was a college chat and there was food inside. The second the women left we were allowed to stand and go eat the free lunch there was for everyone assiting the chat.... Only that there was nothing left. Women took it all. Not that anyone thought it was important though... Except everyone hungry. The women juust smiled and layed "cute" and it was as if nothing had happened.

I feel like you're still not getting that the crappy things you're talking about ("ladies first") are rooted in patriarchy, which is exactly what feminists are seeking to correct.

Patriarchy is not all high pay, good jobs, sandwiches and blow jobs on demand. It also being the last to get on the lifeboat, being mocked for being abused or raped by a woman, getting conscripted, having a hard time gaining custody of your kids, being mainly responsible for paying the bills and a whole lot of other things that suck if you're a man. That's part of the reason so many men are feminists.

Women don't demand any of those crappy things from men. Men simply feel like they need to do them to be considered "real men", because in a patriarchal system women are perceived as fragile, weak and helpless things that men need to govern, care for and protect. We've had very little say in constructing a social system which makes you the last into the lifeboat.

I'm fuzzy on the details, but I'm pretty sure someone already explained this to you. More than once, I believe.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I don't see how being insecure and uncooperative, uncommunicative, uncaring and insensitive could possibly be perceived by any sane human, male or female, as a leadership quality. Why do you believe the defects you listed make others worthy of respect? Would you submit to a competitive, uncommunicative, uncaring and insensitive woman, or are those awful character flaws only capable of dominating you in conjunction with penis ownership?

What is up with this deeming picture of men that you just shared?

 

[Riverwolf]

This really speaks volumes about your view of men in general and it's not pretty.

I fail to see how. It seems quite reasonable to me.

 

[dust1n]

Being a movement the only way it could be "against" is by actions.

What has the feminism m ovement done to cambat this then?

Feminism isn't a movement, it's a philosophy.

I never said women who say are feminists are not egualitarian. I said the movement deals only about injustices against women and not against injustices against men. Thats all.

Almost all feminist groups support LGBT rights, protest in such, same as children's rights, and economic rights for everyone, especially in developing countries. These all affect men.

Men are generally entitled to same public services as women are concerning domestic abuse. The stigma against men using them is the result of a patriarchy.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

So... believing that men and women are equal makes woman haters, who would naturally not believe men and women are equal, egalitarian?

Strange. I've never heard that definition of feminism before. Tell me where you heard that.

Oh dear lord, lots of people say men and women are equal and don't check their privilege and critically analyse male centrism and patriarchal culture.

Feminism is a political and social movement and mind set, you can't simply look up the word feminism in a dictionary and define it that way for everything.

 

[MoonWater]

I don't know why I have to explain this to someone who calls themself a feminist but here I go. Feminism is not as simple as believing men and women are equal that would make a lot of woman haters "feminists."

how do you come to that conclusion?

First of all feminism is about women's issues/experiences and educating yourself on those issues. It is a process of unlearning sexism and woman hating and patriarchal conditioning. not a passing thought of "oh yeah men and women are equal." It requires you to be critical of male centric-ism. It also means you believe in male privilege and challenging that privilege. And it also means giving women their space to discuss issues with each other and supporting our sisterhood, in other words it means knowing when to butt out.

that sounds more like a definition of women's studies rather than a definition of feminism. Sorry but i'm still confused.

 

[dust1n]

I don't see how being insecure and uncooperative, uncommunicative, uncaring and insensitive could possibly be perceived by any sane human, male or female, as a leadership quality. Why do you believe the defects you listed make others worthy of respect? Would you submit to a competitive, uncommunicative, uncaring and insensitive woman, or are those awful character flaws only capable of dominating you in conjunction with penis ownership?

This really speaks volumes about your view of men in general and it's not pretty.

Avoid a real response with a personal attack. Classic.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

I fail to see how. It seems quite reasonable to me.

watch and see. I can spin it in the opposite direction:

Women use words unncecessarily and wastefully, are emotionally weak and break down too often in stressful situations, they can't handle the pressure of competition, and they coddle people that isn't doing their job as opposed to replacing them with someone who can.

I don't think either Alceste's or this characterization of male and female attributes are fair. I think the unique qualities of men and women complement each other

 

[Riverwolf]

Oh dear lord, lots of people say men and women are equal and don't check their privilege and critically analyse male centrism and patriarchal culture.

Nobody here is saying that men and women are socially equal; but that they should be.

Feminism is a political and social movement and mind set, you can't simply look up the word feminism in a dictionary and define it that way for everything.

Yeah, I know it's a movement. It's one that seeks social, political, and economic equality between men and women.

 

[dust1n]

watch and see. I can spin it in the opposite direction:

Women use words unncecessarily and wastefully, are emotionally weak and break down too often in stressful situations, they can't handle the pressure of competition, and they coddle people that isn't doing their job as opposed to replacing them with someone who can.

I don't think either Alceste's or this characterization of male and female attributes are fair. I think the unique qualities of men and women complement each other

Welp, that was basically my last bit of possible respect dying in this one post.

 

[Riverwolf]

watch and see. I can spin it in the opposite direction:

Women use words unncecessarily and wastefully, are emotionally weak and break down too often in stressful situations, they can't handle the pressure of competition, and they coddle people that isn't doing their job as opposed to replacing them with someone who can.

She didn't say anything like that.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why is it that the men who most ardently push the idea of male strength also tend to be the most defensive and insecure? Maybe we should pose this question to some male scientists.

 

[-Peacemaker-]

She didn't say anything like that.

She was responding to my post in which I shared a few generalizations about men:

men are more competitive
men use less words than women when expressing themselves
men are less emotional
women tend nuture

She spun them so that they appeared as inherent flaws

 

[Alceste]

This really speaks volumes about your view of men in general and it's not pretty.

Those are your views of men, not mine. All that bollox about men "using less words to communicate" and being "competitive" and such like. I don't agree with it, I simply used different words to describe the qualities you listed. Remember, YOU are the one who believes men have these qualities. Not me.

Now that that's cleared up, I'll repeat my question. How does being "competitive" AKA uncooperative, "using less words" AKA uncommunicative, "being less emotional" AKA insensitive, and whatever else you said qualify a person to be a leader? And do follow women with those "leadership" qualities, or will you only submit to the will of uncooperative, uncommunicative, insensitive and uncaring people if they happen to have a penis?

Just to be completely clear, I do not agree with your dismal view of men. I am simply asking you why you think those particular character defects are actually positive leadership qualities, and asking you to clarify how the presence or absence of a penis fits into the equation.

 

[Alceste]

Why is it that the men who most ardently push the idea of male strength also tend to be the most defensive and insecure? Maybe we should pose this question to some male scientists.

I don't know, but it's pretty obvious to me I could snap "peacemaker" like a twig, but I'd have a pretty hard time handling you. :flirt:

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Welp, that was basically my last bit of possible respect dying in this one post.

What a shame to suffer the "dying respect" of someone who has jumped in at the end of the conversation, shared a couple "one-liners", and hasn't even begun to demonstrate that they've actually made an effort to read the thread and understand where people are coming from.

 

[Alceste]

She was responding to my post in which I shared a few generalizations about men:

men are more competitive
men use less words than women when expressing themselves
men are less emotional
women tend nuture

She spun them so that they appeared as inherent flaws

How are they not flaws? Isn't cooperation superior to competition?

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Nobody here is saying that men and women are socially equal; but that they should be.

I wasn't talking about anyone here. But thinking that women and men should be equal doesn't necessarily make you a feminist either, as in order to be a feminist you're meant to try and be conscious of privilege and inequality and how it works to oppress certain groups of people