Lai Thomas exposed. Quite literally.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am certain that those were sports physicals.

Sorry you do not approve of my humor.

Apologies. I don't dissaprove of your humour (Canadian spelling).

But maybe you didn't notice, in another thread I offered one possible motto for myself: "Si movet, blandiunt" (if it moves, fondle it.) That was my attempt at humour.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I've never really had one so I don't know. I can see how they would require that especially for sports.

If one never competed in an organized sport in either high school or college one would probably be unaware off them. Let me take that back a little bit. Quite a few boy students compete in sports in high school so most will be aware of what goes on in such exams whether they participate or not. A doctor is going to handle your junk a bit, but not in a sexual manner. And it appears that girls have to undergo physicals too, and it is not unreasonable to ask about menstruation I guess. :

How Can a Sports Physical Exam Help Your Child?

There are not a lot of details in that, as you see they left off the hernia tests that every boy knows about.

But I do have a bit of discomfort with the idea of doctors violating patient doctor confidentiality.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If one never competed in an organized sport in either high school or college one would probably be unaware off them. Let me take that back a little bit. Quite a few boy students compete in sports in high school so most will be aware of what goes on in such exams whether they participate or not. A doctor is going to handle your junk a bit, but not in a sexual manner. And it appears that girls have to undergo physicals too, and it is not unreasonable to ask about menstruation I guess. :

How Can a Sports Physical Exam Help Your Child?

There are not a lot of details in that, as you see they left off the hernia tests that every boy knows about.

But I do have a bit of discomfort with the idea of doctors violating patient doctor confidentiality.

Medical examinations for conscription include similar procedures in my country.

 

[Curious George]

I don't trust the NY Post, but in general, I think it's understandable for some cis women to feel uncomfortable seeing a penis in the locker room. I have no solution to this, though, nor do I think it's an easy issue to solve.

I am still examining my feelings for bias, but generally I think that the solution is for people that feel uncomfortable seeing a penis is for them not to look. I favor providing single changing stalls for anyone concerned about their own modesty, and certainly intervention for any inappropriate behavior.

that said I would support individual rights to walk around in public nude, though I personally am pretty modest and wouldn’t want to do that myself.

I think that the idea that merely seeing a penis or breast qualifies as a violation to some people is a symptom of cultural issues that are problematic.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I am still examining my feelings for bias, but generally I think that the solution is for people that feel uncomfortable seeing a penis is for them not to look. I favor providing single changing stalls for anyone concerned about their own modesty, and certainly intervention for any inappropriate behavior.

that said I would support individual rights to walk around in public nude, though I personally am pretty modest and wouldn’t want to do that myself.

I think that the idea that merely seeing a penis or breast qualifies as a violation to some people is a symptom of cultural issues that are problematic.

I have no definitive thoughts on it, myself. It's one of those things where I think society will come up with better answers and become better at navigating the entire subject as time goes on. For now, this is still a relatively new public discussion.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am still examining my feelings for bias, but generally I think that the solution is for people that feel uncomfortable seeing a penis is for them not to look. I favor providing single changing stalls for anyone concerned about their own modesty, and certainly intervention for any inappropriate behavior.

that said I would support individual rights to walk around in public nude, though I personally am pretty modest and wouldn’t want to do that myself.

I think that the idea that merely seeing a penis or breast qualifies as a violation to some people is a symptom of cultural issues that are problematic.

Um, pretty much all cultures, even isolated tribal peoples, cover their genitals up. It's a very basic form of modesty. (Similar to how humans seek privacy for sexual acts. Like clothing, it's a human thing.) People also have a right not to be exposed to people's bits in a public setting. You want to be a nudist, go do it on your own property or a private retreat. Breasts are another thing, as they're not genitals.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Did you do any organized sports?

I hated school too much, too the point that during my sophomore they decided people who don't want to stand and participate in all the homecoming crap basically had to go be in detention and share the time with the kids formally in trouble.
There was PE classes, and while I actually did take a bunch of those I can promise no one ever had I chance to see anything. I was slow getting to things (and thus the locker room empty), quick, and didn't care what anyone thought of not showering. Not like I actually stank and my school had those towards the end of the day anyways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am still examining my feelings for bias, but generally I think that the solution is for people that feel uncomfortable seeing a penis is for them not to look. I favor providing single changing stalls for anyone concerned about their own modesty, and certainly intervention for any inappropriate behavior.

that said I would support individual rights to walk around in public nude, though I personally am pretty modest and wouldn’t want to do that myself.

I think that the idea that merely seeing a penis or breast qualifies as a violation to some people is a symptom of cultural issues that are problematic.

It is curious how our own body got to be considered shameful and embarrassing. Seems like a problem to overcome, in my opinion, and cease being ashamed of ourselves just for being.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It is curious how our own body got to be considered shameful and embarrassing. Seems like a problem to overcome, in my opinion, and cease being ashamed of ourselves just for being.

Not wanting to see random strangers naked in public doesn't mean you think the body is somehow shameful. It's natural to be embarrassed by such things, too.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not wanting to see random strangers naked in public doesn't mean you think the body is somehow shameful. It's natural to be embarrassed by such things, too.

It's just a body. It shouldn't be offensive or embarrassing.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It's just a body. It shouldn't be offensive or embarrassing.

No one's saying the human body itself is offensive. And I meant that it's natural to be embarrassed by seeing public nudity or to be nude yourself in public.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I hated school too much, too the point that during my sophomore they decided people who don't want to stand and participate in all the homecoming crap basically had to go be in detention and share the time with the kids formally in trouble.
There was PE classes, and while I actually did take a bunch of those I can promise no one ever had I chance to see anything. I was slow getting to things (and thus the locker room empty), quick, and didn't care what anyone thought of not showering. Not like I actually stank and my school had those towards the end of the day anyways.

And PE is different from organized sports in schools. One never had to have an examination for PE. It was only if one opted to go out for a sports team that they became mandatory.

I would not expect you to know what one had to do to participate in a team sport.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The ciswomen that are opposing this do have a valid point. It is not unreasonable to see this as a violation of their privacy.

 

[Curious George]

People also have a right not to be exposed to people's bits in a public setting.

it is in this where I think our disagreement is. Public space is public space. I don’t think people should dictate how others dress. If you wanted to bring up public health and safety, I.e you shouldn’t be forced to sit on some persons butt-sweat, then I get that. I just don’t find the argument that we have some right to dictate that to which we are exposed in the public setting when the exposure does not impact our health or safety.

 

[Subduction Zone]

it is in this where I think our disagreement is. Public space is public space. I don’t think people should dictate how others dress. If you wanted to bring up public health and safety, I.e you shouldn’t be forced to sit on some persons butt-sweat, then I get that. I just don’t find the argument that we have some right to dictate that to which we are exposed in the public setting when the exposure does not impact our health or safety.

Locker rooms are not "public spaces" in that sense. A person does have a right to privacy from the opposite sex. This is a troublesome area for transgender people. So who is to suffer? The majority or the minority when it comes to a right to privacy? And yes, gender is not the same as sex. I was not even thinking that when i wrote the phrase "opposite sex". An unalerted female seeing a biological male in a women's locker room is a cause for concern to her. Sports is an area that is loaded with problems when it comes to transgender issues. There are still some very big wrinkles to iron out. Too many transwomen still have benefits of being born biologically male.

 

[Heyo]

Just go Russian where intermingled Co ed rooms are commonplace and non controversial.

This. Americans have to get the sticks out of their ***es and start to relax. The puritan taboos around nudity are ridiculous to most Europeans. You can see male genitalia in a Swedish children's movie and a single nipple is enough for an R rating in the US.

 

[SomeRandom]

Not wanting to see random strangers naked in public doesn't mean you think the body is somehow shameful. It's natural to be embarrassed by such things, too.

Okay, can I just like say something that is perhaps coloured by my not living in America?
So this whole thread is about locker rooms in a high school, is that correct?
Just so I’m fully clear about this, a locker room in this context is like the ones shown on US tv shows right? Big open area where people can change their clothes and take showers presumably behind like a door or curtain or something, right?!

Why do you guys even have those so exposed in the first place?
By that I mean, okay whenever we had swimming carnivals for school or whatever, we would get changed in large rooms with their own individual cabinet things. I guess you would call them “stalls”
We go in, set up shop in one of the stalls, close the door so we have full privacy and then get changed.
At least where I live

They’re called “changing rooms” here. (I know real original, but our English usage is quite drunk lol)
Mind you I’m talking about like public pools and stuff like that so it isn’t like all fancy or that well maintained (bare minimum cleaning standards to avoid the health inspector Iow)
But still.

Come to think of it we don’t really have locker rooms on our public high schools anyway, unless it has a pool. Not the way the US sets them up anyway. Again, at least where I live
If you have to change your clothes here for something, you use the toilets/bathroom. Again individual stalls and this is just something kind of weird that I noticed. But our doors for the individual toilet stalls here actually go a lot lower than in the US (from what I’ve seen.)
So that’s a bit, interesting I guess.

I apologise if I’m misunderstanding the situation. It’s just that you would have to kind of go out of your way here to even catch a glimpse of a naked body in our changing rooms. (Usually) So I’m just wondering why this seemingly comes up a fair few times in the US

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Too many transwomen still have benefits of being born biologically male.

Such as shrunken muscle mass that don't develop as much or as fast with such low levels of testosterone?

This is a troublesome area for transgender people. So who is to suffer? The majority or the minority when it comes to a right to privacy?

If people are doing their thing (which includes minding their own business like a proper, polite person) how is anyone going to know anything? And you run into problems because expecting transpeople to identify is violation of privacy laws that even a judge must jump through very high and very narrow loops to get even a smidgeon of info.

 

[We Never Know]

I've never really had one so I don't know. I can see how they would require that especially for sports.

Every physical I had it involved the testes and a cough.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Such as shrunken muscle mass that don't develop as much or as fast with such low levels of testosterone?
And if people are doing their thing (which includes minding their own business) how is anyone going to know anything?

Except that they have not fully shrunken often . Lia Thomas was not a national level competitor as a male. But after just a year of transitioning he was one as a women. Now I can understand why the standard is of only one year of hormone suppression for the NCAA. A college "career" has to be short. In the Olympics it is two years minimum. And there are sports where that is not enough.

This is not settled science by any means yet. There will be growing pains.