Last February, Trump signed a bill making it easier for people with mental illness to buy guns

[Revoltingest]

Good question but I am too young to know the answer to that. I don't really know how it used to be in the past, but I assume there are less robberies nowadays ( proportionally ) considering how widespread their use is.



There are always guards in banks. They ask you to step back, put whatever metal object you might have on you in a box, so to say, and then try again to pass through the door.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words:

It's a hassle, I know.

Dang! That all looks so expensive & Big Brotherish.
What country?

 

[Koldo]

Dang! That all looks so expensive & Big Brotherish.
What country?

Probably not so expensive to the banks considering how much money they make...
Either way, it is Brazil. A country where guns are mostly forbidden to the general population.

 

[Revoltingest]

Probably not so expensive to the banks considering how much money they make...

Any cost affects the bottom line.
So there must be some value in all that security.

Either way, it is Brazil. A country where guns are mostly forbidden to the general population.

Aye, much more violence there.
Ref....
Gun Violence: How The U.S. Compares With Other Countries
Stay safe.

 

[suncowiam]

Why when you are supplying all the sources I need to show we cannot conclude a causal link:

"While it also noted an accelerated decline in firearms deaths since the ban, and a statistically significant acceleration in the downward trend of firearm suicides, it concluded they could not be causally linked to Mr Howard’s ban despite this correlation"

Fair enough. You should assert that statement which was another opinion. You've only countered with opinions and speculation. I've responded to your criticism and your assertions. You haven't responded to my request for actual statistics to prove a counter trend. I welcome all the criticism, opinions, speculations and doubt. But to strengthen all that, real data would absolutely solidify it, wouldn't it? Otherwise, they still remain opinions and speculations at best.

If I was a betting man, given all the data I've presented and none of which to support the opposite trend, then I place my bets on gun control. We all have to make guestimates at some point in our lives based on real world information.

I've presented data accumulated over many years which were drawn from civilizations of millions of population. It shows a clear trend, IMO. That when strict gun laws are actually enforced, homicides and gun violence decreases. I might doubt this trend myself, if there were other data to contradict this, but I've only been countered with opinions from yourself and from the article. Again, only opinions and speculation, no data.

Let's draw an analogy. Hypothetically, if smoking showed a correlation to increased cases of cancer but no scientific group can prove causation, what then should people continue to do? Smoke or not smoke? Well, I'll tell you what I would do. And that is not smoke. That is the benefit of correlations. It doesn't have to prove a specific causation. There could be chains of causal link from smoking to cancer, but the correlation is clear. Increased smoking shows an increased chance of cancer.

 

[Curious George]

Fair enough. You should assert that statement which was another opinion. You've only countered with opinions and speculation. I've responded to your criticism and your assertions. You haven't responded to my request for actual statistics to prove a counter trend. I welcome all the criticism, opinions, speculations and doubt. But to strengthen all that, real data would absolutely solidify it, wouldn't it? Otherwise, they still remain opinions and speculations at best.

If I was a betting man, given all the data I've presented and none of which to support the opposite trend, then I place my bets on gun control. We all have to make guestimates at some point in our lives based on real world information.

I've presented data accumulated over many years which were drawn from civilizations of millions of population. It shows a clear trend, IMO. That when strict gun laws are actually enforced, homicides and gun violence decreases. I might doubt this trend myself, if there were other data to contradict this, but I've only been countered with opinions from yourself and from the article. Again, only opinions and speculation, no data.

Let's draw an analogy. Hypothetically, if smoking showed a correlation to increased cases of cancer but no scientific group can prove causation, what then should people continue to do? Smoke or not smoke? Well, I'll tell you what I would do. And that is not smoke. That is the benefit of correlations. It doesn't have to prove a specific causation. There could be chains of causal link from smoking to cancer, but the correlation is clear. Increased smoking shows an increased chance of cancer.

Please quote whatever I said that you do not believe that you feel needs a statistic to back-up.

While I enjoy listening to your endless calls for statistics, I honestly can't take the request seriously. Would you like me to provide statistics that show that the difference in homicide rates is not as pronounced as the difference in gun violence rates?

Would you like me to provide support for how one can not draw causation from correlation?

Seriously think about this. What exactly have I said for which you need a statistic?

It is slightly humorous that you want me provide you statistics for I don't even know what? What have I said that you do not believe, and how is providing a statistic going to change that?

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you mean there aren't metal detectors at pretty much every bank's entrance in the USA ?
I am honestly surprised if that's true.

Today I went to my local bank to re-up my pimp roll.
I asked the teller about metal detectors.
She said that in some bad areas of Detroit, they
have such extra security.

 

[Falvlun]

While it's difficult to address statistics not sourced,

“ After matching for four characteristics and controlling for the effects of five more, we found that the presence of one or more firearms in the home was strongly associated with an increased risk of homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4).” NEJM

“CONCLUSION: Having a gun at home is a risk factor for adults to be shot fatally (gun homicide) or commit suicide with a firearm.“ Annals of Emergency Medicine

“Multivariate analyses found that states with higher rates of household firearm ownership had significantly higher homicide victimization rates of men, women and children. The association between firearm prevalence and homicide victimization in our study was driven by gun-related homicide victimization rates; non-gun-related victimization rates were not significantly associated with rates of firearm ownership.” -Social Science & Medicine.

do you know if they address the level of training?

Probably not since there’s currently no training requirements for owning a gun.

I propose that those teachers who want to be armed
receive extensive training.

I agree that would be an absolute must. But I’m not sure that “extensive training” will be uniformly implemented or agreed upon. And even with training, accidents and lapses in attention happen.

 

[Revoltingest]

But I’m not sure that “extensive training” will be uniformly implemented or agreed upon.
And even with training, accidents and lapses in attention happen.

Sure.
But the issue is whether vetted, trained, armed school staff would improve the
situation, reducing the number of lives lost, & even reducing the number of attacks.
I see great potential here, but the anti-gun camp appears to be uniformly
against even considering it. Closed minded, eh.

 

[Falvlun]

Again with the medical information.

Yup, absolutely. People with qualifying mental health risks should not be allowed to own guns until cleared by a psychologist.

Heck, we should do it like Japan, where you have to go in for a mental health check specifically for the ability to own guns. That way it’s standard across the board, and it limits the health info to only what’s needed.

How are you going to enforce storage requirements?

I liked @Revoltingest’s insurance recommendation. Otherwise storage laws would only be enforced if there was reasonable cause or a clear violation, like a stolen gun or a child’s accidental injury.

This is done at the state level, I do not think one need go through drivers ed. If one is 18 in most states.

Well I’m proposing a federal training program that would be required for everyone who wants to own a gun.

I think all reasonable restriction should be on the table, we just different on what is reasonable based on the level of scrutiny.

And hinder individuals who are completely unrelated to the problems you see.

Why do you think requiring additional training or restrictions on guns that can kill many people very quickly shouldn’t be on the table?

Most laws are a hindrance. I have to take my shoes off at the airport. I have to renew my drivers license every so often. I have to leash my dog even though he’s well behaved off leash. “Not being a hindrance” is an unreasonable standard.

Really worth giving up the right to abortion? It is not to me.

You are asking a lot.

I don’t see the abortion relevance.

I don’t think it’s a lot to ask that mentally ill people at risk for committing violence should not be able to own a gun. What is your solution for preventing people who should not own a gun from obtaining a gun?

So you don't support any state gun regulation?

I support them as stop gap measures but I do not think they will ever be as effective as a national plan.

No, you are not entitled to a gun, but I would hope that creating a dual class of rights for people who can afford them and for people who cannot, is bothersome to you.

We already have that based on the cost of guns.

If you can save up for a $300 gun, you can save up another $100 to learn how to safely use it and to keep everyone else safe as well.

Maybe the NRA could provide scholarships.

So, I have to run a background check on my daughter to give her a gun for her 18th birthday? That just seems silly.

Why is your daughter more special than anyone else who needs to pass the background check?

Should parents just be able to vouch that their child is able to drive in order for her to obtain a driver’s license?

 

[Falvlun]

Sure.
But the issue is whether vetted, trained, armed school staff would improve the
situation, reducing the number of lives lost, & even reducing the number of attacks.
I see great potential here, but the anti-gun camp appears to be uniformly
against even considering it. Closed minded, eh.

My objection largely derived from the fact that “more guns!” is pretty much the only solution offered by the anti- gun control crowd.

I also think it’s a lot to ask of teachers. I’d be happier if it was a trained security guard who’s on campus for the duration of the school day.

 

[Revoltingest]

My objection largely derived from the fact that “more guns!” is pretty much the only solution offered by the anti- gun control crowd.

Oh, come on....admit it...."more guns" is a simplistic &
misleading straw man created by the anti-gun crowd.

I also think it’s a lot to ask of teachers. I’d be happier if it was a trained security guard who’s on campus for the duration of the school day.

I wouldn't ask anything of teachers.
Just offer them the opportunity.

Would you allow your trained security guard to teach?

 

[Skipper]

Phhoto of Trump after signing the Executive Order making it easier for mentally ill people to buy guns.

 

[Skipper]

Would you allow your trained security guard to teach?

A trained security guard put a bullet through the CEO's door. He was practicing his fast draw. ROFL

 

[Revoltingest]

A trained security guard put a bullet through the CEO's door. He was practicing his fast draw. ROFL

Now there is someone who should receive a lifetime prohibition from owning a gun.

 

[metis]

Phhoto of Trump after signing the Executive Order making it easier for mentally ill people to buy guns.

And that's the point, whereas we see Trump and his groupies blame it all on the mentally ill, but then taking positions on the mentally ill whereas they not only don't offer anything to help them, they actually reduce efforts to help them. Their hypocrisy is astounding and utterly pathetic.