Laurel Hubbard Fails to Complete a Single Lift in the Olympics

[Revoltingest]

All I can think of is...

Yeah....not a good result.
Not handled well.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Not sure what the point of this post is. It seems unnecessarily derogatory, but feel free to correct me if I misunderstood what you intended to convey there.

Sometimes I wonder about this crazy mixed up world. I just see it for what it is.

Frankly I don't see nor view Laurel as a legitimate women.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sometimes I wonder about this crazy mixed up world. I just see it for what it is.

Frankly I don't see nor view Laurel as a legitimate women.

To say "not a legitimate woman" is provocative.
To say "trans woman" is both accurate & neutral.
So the latter works best...unless provocation is the goal.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Sometimes I wonder about this crazy mixed up world. I just see it for what it is.

Frankly I don't see nor view Laurel as a legitimate women.

1) What is "crazy" or "mixed up" about the acknowledgement of gender dysphoria or the scientific consensus that there's no objective basis for what constitutes gender identities?

2) Does your definition of "real women" exclude trans women in general, or is there anything specific about Laurel Hubbard that makes you say this?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Inconclusive.

It seems obvious. That big of a failure she must be a Venture.

To say "not a legitimate woman" is provocative.
To say "trans woman" is both accurate & neutral.
So the latter works best...unless provocation is the goal.

I'll just let that do the speaking for me.
But I will throw out, the "real/legitimate woman" thing does end up excluding many who were born as and identify as women.
Kind like when a cis-lesbian was harassed over using using the women's bathroom because she doesn't dress or present in a feminine way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

1) What is "crazy" or "mixed up" about the acknowledgement of gender dysphoria or the scientific consensus that there's no objective basis for what constitutes gender identities?

You'd think the science and medical consensus would be good enough. But it's not because everyone loves to pretend they're an expert and know everything about a such they don't know snakes from dildos about.

 

[Twilight Hue]

1) What is "crazy" or "mixed up" about the acknowledgement of gender dysphoria or the scientific consensus that there's no objective basis for what constitutes gender identities?

2) Does your definition of "real women" exclude trans women in general, or is there anything specific about Laurel Hubbard that makes you say this?

Let's just say foremost things are not being handled well when it comes to the classification of sexual identities as a mental illness.

Most know it, but say nothing for fear of being labeled 'transphobic' or some other creatively thought up term as a put down for something that is clearly not normal to begin with.

Removing and sewing on genitalia , then injecting in hormones, steroids, somehow dosent strike me as being particularly healthy in my view in the first place. I understand the mental issues involved, and if that is what it takes for a person to feel better I'm all for it, go ahead it's your body, but at the same time, I'm certainly not going to give anyone the satisfaction of being called something they are actually not.

Can I change my present view? Of course.

If the day comes when transition results in a complete genetic change, entire bone structure transformation, uterus development, capability to produce offspring. I'll gladly rescind my present views.

I have nothing against individual choice but I'll be dammed if I'm going to be muzzled or decried for speaking my own views on the issue. Especially when it bullies itself in on those who don't deserve it such as in women's sports. It's unfair, it's nasty, and it's unwarranted to natural women who no longer will be able to compete because of this.

I said beauty pagent because it's the only way to get the obvious across, and making a proper solid point on something that needs to be put out.

it's intended as a proper slap in the face for people to wake up and get back on track to stop the madness of pretending to be something that one is not.

Like this 'transphobic' 'hater'.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Let's just say foremost things are not being handled well when it comes to the classification of sexual identities as a mental illness.

Most know it, but say nothing for fear of being labeled 'transphobic' or some other creatively thought up term as a put down for something that is clearly not normal to begin with.

Removing and sewing on genitalia , then injecting in hormones, steroids, somehow dosent strike me as being particularly healthy in my view in the first place. I understand the mental issues involved, and if that is what it takes for a person to feel better I'm all for it, go ahead it's your body, but at the same time, I'm certainly not going to give anyone the satisfaction of being called something they are actually not.

Can I change my present view? Of course.

If the day comes when transition results in a complete genetic change, entire bone structure transformation, uterus development, capability to produce offspring. I'll gladly rescind my present views.

I have nothing against individual choice but I'll be dammed if I'm going to be muzzled or decried for speaking my own views on the issue. Especially when it bullies itself in on those who don't deserve it such as in women's sports. It's unfair, it's nasty, and it's unwarranted to natural women who no longer will be able to compete because of this.

I said beauty pagent because it's the only way to get the obvious across, and making a proper solid point on something that needs to be put out.

it's intended as a proper slap in the face for people to wake up and get back on track to stop the madness of pretending to be something that one is not.

Like this 'transphobic' 'hater'.

What a weird, weird hill to die on. Does it honestly matter that much to you? Like, does this really upset you?

I suggest befriending trans people in real life and share a drink or two. Get to know who they are and their lives. Not saying that will change your mind, but in listening to your spiel, it seems you've become real set in your ways on an issue you have no first hand, or any hand experience with. I'm not sure you can empathize with this nearly as much as you think you can, but that could just be me assuming things.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

it's intended as a proper slap in the face for people to wake up and get back on track to stop the madness of pretending to be something that one is not.

Pretending was me trying to be male. It was me going through the motions, and living a life so empty I wanted to die (especially when you add in the threats of eternal Hellfire given I used to be a Southern Baptist). That was madness, and I'd rather die than go back to it.
I'll take looking in the mirror and not seeing an overtly and very masculine face any time. Being less detached from my life and finding what paths and tracks I want to take for the rest of it is wonderful. It's a pleasant feeling to just appreciate being alive, especially when most of your life has been a black hole and yearning for death.

Removing and sewing on genitalia , then injecting in hormones, steroids, somehow doesn't strike me as being particularly healthy in my view in the first place.

That strikes me as being particularly ignorant of transitioning. Such as, hormones come long before surgery, and they aren't necessarily injected. And "removing and sewing on" isn't really accurate given things are more-or-less rearranged.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What a weird, weird hill to die on. Does it honestly matter that much to you? Like, does this really upset you?

I suggest befriending trans people in real life and share a drink or two. Get to know who they are and their lives. Not saying that will change your mind, but in listening to your spiel, it seems you've become real set in your ways on an issue you have no first hand, or any hand experience with. I'm not sure you can empathize with this nearly as much as you think you can, but that could just be me assuming things.

I know several in real life and I'm certainly on friendly terms. You can do that you know, while still holding a mutual respect for one another's personhood even if opinions are diametrically opposed.

It is possible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

To say "not a legitimate woman" is provocative.
To say "trans woman" is both accurate & neutral.
So the latter works best...unless provocation is the goal.

But I will throw out, the "real/legitimate woman" thing does end up excluding many who were born as and identify as women.

I rest my case.

If the day comes when transition results in a complete genetic change, entire bone structure transformation, uterus development, capability to produce offspring. I'll gladly rescind my present views.

Only about 50% of women have the "female hips," some women are born XY, and someone women are born without a uterus and cannot produce offspring. That doesn't make them any less of a woman.
It's like when the Harry Potter author made a comment about women and menstruation. Not all women do menstruate. But we have this long standing idea that a woman's value is tied to her ability to bear children. But women who can't, or simply just don't, are not any less of a woman because of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I know several in real life and I'm certainly on friendly terms. You can do that you know, while still holding a mutual respect for one another's personhood even if opinions are diametrically opposed.

It is possible.

Saying it's madness, and not well handled, crazy and mixed up, and people pretending, I have my doubts on your claims here.
Kind of like when a white supremacist says he isn't racist because he has some black friends.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Pretending was me trying to be male. It was me going through the motions, and living a life so empty I wanted to die (especially when you add in the threats of eternal Hellfire given I used to be a Southern Baptist). That was madness, and I'd rather die than go back to it.
I'll take looking in the mirror and not seeing an overtly and very masculine face any time. Being less detached from my life and finding what paths and tracks I want to take for the rest of it is wonderful. It's a pleasant feeling to just appreciate being alive, especially when most of your life has been a black hole and yearning for death.

That strikes me as being particularly ignorant of transitioning. Such as, hormones come long before surgery, and they aren't necessarily injected. And "removing and sewing on" isn't really accurate given things are more-or-less rearranged.

It's not what a person does to their body that is irksome.

It's the practice of bullying and muscling in of ones views on those who dont see things on the same level, and don't appreciate the forced attempts to make other conform or acknowledge something they won't accept.

In this case, it's the intrusion into natural women's sports.

 

[Twilight Hue]

To say "not a legitimate woman" is provocative.
To say "trans woman" is both accurate & neutral.
So the latter works best...unless provocation is the goal.

I rest my case.

Only about 50% of women have the "female hips," some women are born XY, and someone women are born without a uterus and cannot produce offspring. That doesn't make them any less of a woman.
It's like when the Harry Potter author made a comment about women and menstruation. Not all women do menstruate. But we have this long standing idea that a woman's value is tied to her ability to bear children. But women who can't, or simply just don't, are not any less of a woman because of it.

What about bone structure?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Saying it's madness, and not well handled, crazy and mixed up, and people pretending, I have my doubts on your claims here.
Kind of like when a white supremacist says he isn't racist because he has some black friends.

Blame the Kinks.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I know several in real life and I'm certainly on friendly terms. You can do that you know, while still holding a mutual respect for one another's personhood even if opinions are diametrically opposed.

It is possible.

"Personhood" wouldn't the word that would spring to my mind in the way you described trans folks. I'm not sure if you realized just how much demonizing and belittling was going on there.

Like I said, though, what a weird hill to die on.

 

[Twilight Hue]

"Personhood" wouldn't the word that would spring to my mind in the way you described trans folks. I'm not sure if you realized just how much demonizing and belittling was going on there.

Like I said, though, what a weird hill to die on.

The guilt train dosent work with me. Don't even try.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What about bone structure?

Hips are bone structures. I've also known several women who are over 6 feet tall. One the gymnasts on the US Olympic team, she has bigger shoulders than I do.

It's the practice of bullying and muscling in of ones views on those who dont see things on the same level, and don't appreciate the forced attempts to make other conform or acknowledge something they won't accept.

Good thing that view didn't win when it came to women in the work place, ending racial segregation, gay marriage, or accommodations for the physically handicapped.

In this case, it's the intrusion into natural women's sports.

The studies haven't been conclusive there is an advantage, and if someone starts to transition before puberty then any concerns of an advantage are entirely nullified.

 

[SigurdReginson]

The guilt train dosent work with me. Don't even try.

I'm not sure how saying that your thought process in getting so upset over trans issues when you aren't part of the community is weird means that I'm trying to guilt you, but yah know, why not?

I can't make you think anything you don't want to. Words on the internet won't change that, but Imma still point out when I think your logic is flawed. Take that for what you think it's worth (which I'm assuming isn't much).

 

[Twilight Hue]

......

Good thing that view didn't win when it came to women in the work place, ending racial segregation, gay marriage, or accommodations for the physically handicapped.....

With exception to unwarranted and undeserved violence, I dont see how those issues equates with transitioning. Maybe elaborate what's similar?


For me, if transitioning is what a person wants or feels they need to do, I'm fine with that. It's great in itself.

Intrusions and coercion used to force people to acknowledge something that is questionable at best, I'm not fine with.