Laurel Hubbard Fails to Complete a Single Lift in the Olympics

[Twilight Hue]

I'm not sure how saying that your thought process in getting so upset over trans issues when you aren't part of the community is weird means that I'm trying to guilt you, but yah know, why not?

I can't make you think anything you don't want to. Words on the internet won't change that, but Imma still point out when I think your logic is flawed. Take that for what you think it's worth (which I'm assuming isn't much).

Told you, it dosent work.

Keep trying sunshine.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

With exception to unwarranted and undeserved violence, I dont see how those issues equates with transitioning. Maybe elaborate what's similar?

People not liking change and not wanting to let in those who are different,

Intrusions and coercion used to force people to acknowledge something that is questionable at best, I'm not fine with.

And I am just fine with laws that prohibit discrimination.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Told you, it dosent work.

Keep trying sunshine.

You... still think I'm trying to guilt you.

You're right. You win.

 

[Twilight Hue]

People not liking change and not wanting to let in those who are different,

And I am just fine with laws that prohibit discrimination.

Let me try to switch angles here.

All a trans person wants is to be accepted and acknowledged for their desired identity. To be equal and on par with the sex they feel is right in their life and not derided or decried for it. Right? Sounds good and proper and I'm all for it. Really.


On the other hand, when transitioned identity collides with natural identity, friction occurs as exemplified in the case of sports here where its now in potentially serious trouble. Let's face it, there are legitimate concerns as to why when you consider the number of real world examples that has happened thus far.

So who's right and who's wrong here?

I think there are legitimate reasons on all sides that are heidiously hard to reconcile when such things get to the point where you cannot ignore it.

That's why I would like to view now that there are more than just two sexual identities, and to make accommodations for all of them would be the way to go from this point forward by expanding the definition of male and female while preserving natural born with transitioned in a way that's amicable. Man , Woman, Trans Man, Trans Woman.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On the other hand, when transitioned identity collides with natural identity, friction occurs as exemplified in the case of sports here where its now in potentially serious trouble. Let's face it, there are legitimate concerns as to why when you consider the number of real world examples that has happened thus far.

The one I keep seeing is such an outlier that something's up.

That's why I would like to view now that there are more than just two sexual identities, and to make accommodations for all of them would be the way to go from this point forward by expanding the definition of male and female while preserving natural born with transitioned in a way that's amicable. Man , Woman, Trans Man, Trans Woman.

So, where do intersexed people fit in that? XY women?

 

[Revoltingest]

What about bone structure?

What about it?

 

[We Never Know]

Laurel Hubbard has failed to complete a single lift in the Olympics, arguably providing a real-world demonstration that her being transgendered was not advantageous in any notable way as a participant in women's weightlifting, at least in the Olympics:



Tokyo Olympics: Transgender weightlifter Laurel Hubbard makes history - but fails to complete a lift

In your opinion, does this prove that her participation in women's weightlifting wasn't unfair at the end of the day, or did her failure in the competition occur despite a physical advantage?

Hubbard made lift's but they were disqualified...
"Competing in the over-87kg category in Tokyo, Hubbard overbalanced on her opening weight of 120kg, taking the bar behind her shoulders.

Her second attempt of 125kg was ruled invalid on a majority decision by the referees.

The third try was similar to the first, ruling Hubbard out of medal contention."

...,.,.,.,

Now back when Hubbard qualified she lifted a whopping 628 pounds in two lifts to qualify for her first Olympic Games.

How close did the females that won a medal come to 628 pounds in two lifts?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Now back when Hubbard qualified she lifted a whopping 628 pounds in two lifts to qualify for her first Olympic Games.

How close did the females that won a medal come to 628 pounds in two lifts?

Ahead of the Games, Hubbard - ranked 15th in the world - praised organisers for allowing her to compete.

Apparently at least 14 women are better.

 

[Twilight Hue]

What about it?

If you came across the bones of a transitional person, but didn't know, what sex would be declared from examining the bones?

 

[Twilight Hue]

People not liking change and not wanting to let in those who are different,

And I am just fine with laws that prohibit discrimination.

Up to a point in my opinion. I don't disagree entirely.

But...

I think transitional folks have been quite progressive in keeping sure they are not going to be discriminated on basis of their life choices and that's good.

However what I find that is not good is when that protective line starts to step on toes of of others who are now disadvantaged because of it.

The issue of unfairness in sports being one such line.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's a no win situation for transwomen athletes. If they preform well, it's attributed to 'unfair advantages' which I still maintain is as arbitrary and meaningless as banning players over a certain height in basketball.

If they don't do well, it's because they threw the match or they were just an exception to the rule.

Either way they will be under bad faith scrutiny.

All the meanwhile the Olympics is rife with child abuse, human trafficking, corrupt judges, vast waste of land and materials, and all sorts of problems that should have ended the event years ago.

What's wrong with having an exclusive trans Olympics?

I think something like that could prove interesting.

 

[Aštra’el]

I’ve been an athlete all my life. The differences in male and female athletic performance is obvious, and it’s why the women have their own divisions.

-Strong male athlete transitions to a woman, excels in sports, breaks records, and can make it to the Olympics.

-Strong female athlete transitions to a dude, can’t even compete against high school athletes. Won’t ever be the starting fullback leading a team to victory, won’t ever be an MMA or boxing champion, World’s Strongest Man, Navy Seal, etc. Won’t ever break any records in weight lifting or sprints, etc.

Until the technology is available that makes a complete transition into the opposite sex possible, I don’t support trans women competing in female sports.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm wondering on the other end of the spectrum how trans men are faring out in sports? Is there as much participation as there are in women's sports? Have any won gold or first in any events?

 

[Revoltingest]

If you came across the bones of a transitional person, but didn't know, what sex would be declared from examining the bones?

Transexual people....messing up future archeologists
with their possibly misleading fossilized leavings.

 

[Augustus]

In your opinion, does this prove that her participation in women's weightlifting wasn't unfair at the end of the day, or did her failure in the competition occur despite a physical advantage?

She is 43 and the other lifters' average age was 24, it tends to be a young woman's game. By even being there she was a massive outlier.

When you compare her lifts to others in her age group, then you see the performance advantage (she won one tournament by a ludicrous 77% margin).

You will never see the true advantage at the top level until a World Class male athlete transitions. We do have some evidence of sub-elite males becoming elite females after transition though (LH for example).

Saying she didn't win therefore has no advantage is a fallacious argument. I could pop a 200w motor on my bike and I still wouldn't win the Tour de France. Obviously it would still provide me with an advantage though.

The science is pretty clear on this issue of the strength/muscle mass advantages retained after transition, and it is confirmed by real world performance boosts post-transition (albeit very small sample size).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The issue of unfairness in sports being one such line.

That hasn't been found to necessarily be the case. If someone transitions before puberty there is no concern.

The science is pretty clear on this issue of the strength/muscle mass advantages retained after transition, and it is confirmed by real world performance boosts post-transition (albeit very small sample size).

Our muscles shrink and we lose muscle mass. A very [extremely] common thing we MtFs go through is once we start on hormones we get to a point where we notice we can't lift as much as we used to. We don't have the strength we once had.
In the post your picture thread I posted some before and after and you can see the difference in upper body size.
Post your pic 2!

 

[Twilight Hue]

That hasn't been found to necessarily be the case. If someone transitions before puberty there is no concern.

I think eventually, albeit not now, transitional process/procedures will be more in line with natural growth that determines male or female.

My only concern in regards to pre puberty is that of later regrets, but I'm aware that can be contested as in the case of young
hermaphrodites in steering growth towards a particular gender.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think eventually, albeit not now, transitional process/procedures will be more in line with natural growth that determines male or female.

If transition is before puberty then the body isn't exposed to the hormones that cause the puberty of the birth sex. Development would be more like those of the identified sex.

My only concern in regards to pre puberty is that of later regrets, but I'm aware that can be contested as in the case of young
hermaphrodites in steering growth towards a particular gender.

Regrets are actually pretty rare.
Amd "young hermaphrodites"? Just admit it, you've not studied the subject.
Intersexed children are often surgically assigned shortly after birth, and typically assigned female. This is a huge controversy over this, as the choice is entirely removed from the individual.
And, by the way and for your information, hermaphrodite isn't used to describe humans anymore because humans don't actually develop into hermaphrodites. It's can get ambiguous, but not really both.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

WOW the dude lost to the chicks

One "chick" lost to other "chicks."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Frankly I don't see nor view Laurel as a legitimate women.

Should we take this as your invitation for everyone else to judge whether you're a legitimate man?