LDS Atonement

[ἀλήθεια]

It was requested by a Latter-day Saint on the Christians: I intend to watch Passion of the Christ tonight for the first time thread, that I start a new thread to discuss the LDS view of the Atonement of Christ.

According to what I've read, current LDS teaching is that the Atonement took place in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross.

Further the Atonement is considered payment for the Fall that occurred in the Garden of Eden and allows all mankind to be resurrected. In LDS teachings eternal life (not just everlasting life, but the right to spend eternity with Heavenly Father) is reserved for those who qualify by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the LDS gospel.

"3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel."
The Articles of Faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

My post was corrected by a member of the LDS church:

"It's not 'the laws and ordinances of the LDS gospel.' It's the laws and ordinances established by Jesus Christ. They are faith, repentence, baptism, and receiving the Holy Spirit. These are Bible-based teachings."

To which I responded:

I'm sorry that you're taking offence of my use of the term "LDS Gospel." Knowing that we do not hold the same beliefs and that LDS consider non-LDS churches apostate, I used the term to distinguish between our two teachings. The laws and ordinances of your church are considered established by Jesus Christ by some people, but if they would be considered such by all of us, there would be no churches outside of yours. When I post here, I am aware of the fact that both LDS and non-LDS are reading my posts. Are your laws and ordinances not LDS? Are non-LDS permitted to take out their endowments, participate in temple washings and annointings, be sealed for eternity to their spouses by one of your Melchizedek Priesthood holders? Is marriage for time and eternity not required for a person to enter God's glory and receive the fulness of salvation which is referred to as eternal life?

I would question whether LDS believe that a baptized Presbyterian who has faith in Christ can have the Gift of the Holy Ghost without the laying on of hands by an LDS priesthood holder. And can a baptized LDS who has received the laying on of hands for the Gift of the Holy Ghost be assured of exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom, without obedience to seeking out his ancestors and submitting their names for vicarious temple work, without paying a full tithe to the LDS church, without attending his meetings on a regular basis, without keeping the Word of Wisdom(dietary law), and without keeping his covenants that he makes in the LDS temple?

Where was I mistaken?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I'm assuming all my information is correct as no one has said that the information is incorrect.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Perhaps there are Protestants who are familiar with Mormonism. Feel free to post to this thread. And I invite LDS to participate as well.

The Atonement, according to LDS beliefs, absolves all mankind from Adam's transgression in the Garden of Eden. Because of the Atonement, all mankind, regardless of their sins or good deeds or faith or lack of faith in Christ, will be resurrected. LDS occasionally refer to resurrection as salvation(this would mean that some are saved who do not have faith in Christ). However, to be resurrected does not mean that one will dwell in the Presence of Heavenly Father in the next life. Those who have faith in Christ, take part in the ordinances, and keep the commandments that are taught in the LDS church and temples will be exalted(become Gods) and have eternal life in the Presence of Heavenly Father. They will be members of the Church of the Firstborn. The belief is that only these righteous ones will be the true sons and daughters of God.

 

[Delilah Roo]

So this had nothing to do with your post, but I thought I would share because It hought it was funny.

I guess I had a little dislexic moment and read LSD and not LDS, took a min. for me to get it.

Thanks Delilah

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I would enjoy participating on a thread on the atonement of Jesus Christ. What did the person and work of Christ actually accompish? Does official LDS teaching on the atonement vary significantly from the atonement according to Scripture alone?

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I would enjoy participating on a thread on the atonement of Jesus Christ. What did the person and work of Christ actually accompish? Does official LDS teaching on the atonement vary significantly from the atonement according to Scripture alone?

Does the Bible mention a type of salvation for individuals that exists outside of spending eternity with our Heavenly Father?

And, yes, a good question is, "What did the person and work of Christ actually accompish?" Perhaps a Mormon(LDS) will give us the official LDS answer.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Doctrine and Covenants 58
42 Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more.
43 By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.

Matthew 6
14For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Doctrine and Covenants 64
8 My disciples, in days of old, sought occasion against one another and forgave not one another in their hearts; and for this evil they were afflicted and sorely chastened.
9 Wherefore, I say unto you, that ye ought to forgive one another; for he that forgiveth not his brother his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord; for there remaineth in him the greater sin.
10 I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men.

Does the Atonement of Christ bring believers into a right standing before God or must the believer meet a set of requirements in order to be in right standing?

Can we make ourselves more righteous than another brother/sister in Christ is?

What is the meaning of Matthew 6:15?

Can someone who only occasionally sins be righteous?

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

How would an LDS Chrisitan interpert this Scripture?

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - 1 John 2:2

 

[ἀλήθεια]

How would an LDS Chrisitan interpert this Scripture?

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. - 1 John 2:2

There are people who never turn to Christ. Does turning to Christ make a difference?

Forgiveness of personal sins is conditional in LDS teaching. God, according to LDS teaching, cannot bless a person with forgiveness unless the person goes and sins no more.

"There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." (Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21)

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

There are people who never turn to Christ. Does turning to Christ make a difference?

Forgiveness of personal sins is conditional in LDS teaching. God, according to LDS teaching, cannot bless a person with forgiveness unless the person goes and sins no more.

"There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated— And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." (Doctrine and Covenants 130:20-21)

Biblical Christianity is a salvation of works and perfect obedience to the law. Since sinners are unable to keep the law perfectly as required by God for reconcilation with Him, God sent another into the world as an act of love, to fullfill the righteous requirement of the law and also pay the penalty for lawbreakers. Therefore, Christianity is based on the works of another person's righeousness and perfect obedience to the will of God. Martin Luther calls this an alien righteousness because this required perfect righteousness and sinlessness comes outside of ourselves.

Mormon Christianity is based on the works of self, or personal obedience of the law in addition to what Christ has done. Therefore, the work of Christ is insufficent for the Mormon Christian to fullfill the righteous requirment of the law.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

...Mormon Christianity is based on the works of self, or personal obedience of the law in addition to what Christ has done. Therefore, the work of Christ is insufficent for the Mormon Christian to fullfill the righteous requirment of the law.

I would have to agree with you. I have been told that Christ fulfilled the law of Moses, but that LDS are called to live a higher law(the law of Christ).

"Salvation does not come by the law of Moses alone, Mosiah 12: 27—13: 32. In me is the law of Moses fulfilled, 3 Ne. 9: 17. The law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me, 3 Ne. 15: 1-10. Because of disobedience, the Lord took Moses and the Holy Priesthood from the children of Israel, leaving the law of carnal commandments, D&C 84: 23-27."

Law of Moses, Guide to the Scriptures, lds.org

“'The law of Christ' is all-inclusive. It concerns not only rules that shall govern beyond the grave, but also the law of nature here and now—local, national, and international."
Marion G. Romney, “The Rule of Law,” Ensign, Feb 1973, 2

"A Latter-day Saint should strictly obey every law of God, including the constitutional laws of the land in which he lives, and do it with a good and honest heart.
In this day of declining morals and increasing disrespect for law, we can all profitably review and check our own performance against the Ten Commandments, which are basic laws of God not only, but also constitute the foundations of Judeo-Christian secular law."
Marion G. Romney, “The Rule of Law,” Ensign, Feb 1973, 2

Paul wrote this letter to Jewish members of the Church to persuade them that significant aspects of the law of Moses had been fulfilled in Christ and that the higher gospel law of Christ had replaced it. When Paul returned to Jerusalem at the end of his third mission (about A.D. 60), he found that many Jewish members of the Church were still committed to the law of Moses (Acts 21: 20). This was at least ten years after a conference of the Church at Jerusalem had determined that certain ordinances of the law of Moses were not necessary for the salvation of gentile Christians.
Hebrews, Epistle to, Guide to the Scriptures, lds.org

Jesus Christ Fulfilled the Law of Moses
Romans 7 contains Paul’s teachings that the law of Moses became unnecessary after Jesus Christ fulfilled the law of Moses and brought the gospel. Joseph Smith made changes in twenty-one of the twenty-five verses in this chapter. Read the Joseph Smith Translation of Romans 7:5–27 in the Bible appendix (pp. 809–10). Notice verses 13–24, which are unclear in the King James Version because they were improperly translated.
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, New Testament Student Study Guide, ldsces.org

Living According to the Law of Christ
Only those members of the Church who live worthy will receive the full blessings of the gospel when this life is over. Paul used the story of Jacob and Esau to illustrate that covenant sons and daughters who do not live by faith in Christ and keep the commandments lose their gospel blessings. Is simply being a member of the Church enough? How can your faith in Jesus Christ help you to live more righteously?
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, New Testament Student Study Guide, ldsces.org

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

I would have to agree with you. I have been told that Christ fulfilled the law of Moses, but that LDS are called to live a higher law(the law of Christ).

"Salvation does not come by the law of Moses alone, Mosiah 12: 27—13: 32. In me is the law of Moses fulfilled, 3 Ne. 9: 17. The law which was given unto Moses hath an end in me, 3 Ne. 15: 1-10. Because of disobedience, the Lord took Moses and the Holy Priesthood from the children of Israel, leaving the law of carnal commandments, D&C 84: 23-27."

Law of Moses, Guide to the Scriptures, lds.org

“'The law of Christ' is all-inclusive. It concerns not only rules that shall govern beyond the grave, but also the law of nature here and now—local, national, and international."
Marion G. Romney, “The Rule of Law,” Ensign, Feb 1973, 2

"A Latter-day Saint should strictly obey every law of God, including the constitutional laws of the land in which he lives, and do it with a good and honest heart.
In this day of declining morals and increasing disrespect for law, we can all profitably review and check our own performance against the Ten Commandments, which are basic laws of God not only, but also constitute the foundations of Judeo-Christian secular law."
Marion G. Romney, “The Rule of Law,” Ensign, Feb 1973, 2

Paul wrote this letter to Jewish members of the Church to persuade them that significant aspects of the law of Moses had been fulfilled in Christ and that the higher gospel law of Christ had replaced it. When Paul returned to Jerusalem at the end of his third mission (about A.D. 60), he found that many Jewish members of the Church were still committed to the law of Moses (Acts 21: 20). This was at least ten years after a conference of the Church at Jerusalem had determined that certain ordinances of the law of Moses were not necessary for the salvation of gentile Christians.
Hebrews, Epistle to, Guide to the Scriptures, lds.org

Jesus Christ Fulfilled the Law of Moses
Romans 7 contains Paul’s teachings that the law of Moses became unnecessary after Jesus Christ fulfilled the law of Moses and brought the gospel. Joseph Smith made changes in twenty-one of the twenty-five verses in this chapter. Read the Joseph Smith Translation of Romans 7:5–27 in the Bible appendix (pp. 809–10). Notice verses 13–24, which are unclear in the King James Version because they were improperly translated.
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, New Testament Student Study Guide, ldsces.org

Living According to the Law of Christ
Only those members of the Church who live worthy will receive the full blessings of the gospel when this life is over. Paul used the story of Jacob and Esau to illustrate that covenant sons and daughters who do not live by faith in Christ and keep the commandments lose their gospel blessings. Is simply being a member of the Church enough? How can your faith in Jesus Christ help you to live more righteously?
The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, New Testament Student Study Guide, ldsces.org

I find it quite ironic that the LDS Church is building a different gospel from a unbibilical view of the law of Christ, when the Book of Galatians reveals the law of Christ. If you think about the central theme of Galatians, you will see the irony.

Galatians 6:2- Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

I find it quite ironic that the LDS Church is building a different gospel from a unbibilical view of the law of Christ, when the Book of Galatians reveals the law of Christ. If you think about the central theme of Galatians, you will see the irony.

Galatians 6:2- Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Amen! For LDS, in the end, reward is based on how many rules a Christian kept, rather than the blood of Christ which promises all spiritual blessings.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Ephesians 1:3)

 

[Christian Pilgrim]

Amen! For LDS, in the end, reward is based on how many rules a Christian kept, rather than the blood of Christ which promises all spiritual blessings.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Ephesians 1:3)

This is quite the universal passage regarding all who reject the sufficency of Jesus Christ and the finished work of the cross. It's difficult in the flesh to trust in Christ alone as being sufficent for you in all things. They are unable to enter the rest found in Christ alone.

Romans 10
Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[Sola'lor]

Christ's atonement is not insufficient. Without Christ we could never get to Heaven no amount of works could get one to heaven. Only through Christ's atonement can we make it to heaven.

 

[Katzpur]

Christ's atonement is not insufficient. Without Christ we could never get to Heaven no amount of works could get one to heaven. Only through Christ's atonement can we make it to heaven.

Oh, Sola'lor, why oh why did you take the bait?

 

[Sola'lor]

So I can add a thread to the "My Replies" list. I hate looking at it and seeing threads without any replies.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Christ's atonement is not insufficient. Without Christ we could never get to Heaven no amount of works could get one to heaven. Only through Christ's atonement can we make it to heaven.

Would you define sufficient?

"Christ paid not only for Adam’s sins but for ours as well—if we obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel."
“Lesson 2: Jesus Christ, the Savior,” Young Women Manual 1, (2002),6
LDS.org

 

[Sola'lor]

Would you define sufficient?

Just go to Dictionary.com if you don't know what it means.

"Christ paid not only for Adam’s sins but for ours as well—if we obey the laws and ordinances of the gospel."
“Lesson 2: Jesus Christ, the Savior,” Young Women Manual 1, (2002),6
LDS.org

Christ paid for everybody's sins but it is only applicable to us if we do those things that Christ said we need to do. If I reject Christ, eventhough He has already paid for my sins, I won't be able to be saved because I'm not living the way Christ said I should.

 

[ἀλήθεια]

Just go to Dictionary.com if you don't know what it means.

I was interested in the LDS definition.

Christ paid for everybody's sins but it is only applicable to us if we do those things that Christ said we need to do.

If Christ truly paid for all sins, all would be saved.

If I reject Christ, eventhough He has already paid for my sins, I won't be able to be saved because I'm not living the way Christ said I should.

Atonement of Jesus Christ

As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind. Because of His Atonement, all people will be resurrected, and those who obey His gospel will receive the gift of eternal life with God.
Gospel Topics, lds.org

Those who obey will receive eternal life according to lds.org. Therefore one cannot be saved until he has obeyed all of the laws pertaining to eternal life. If this is the case, Christ did not really save the person; He only assured the individual's immortality.