happyhummingbird
Member
That doesn't really matter. If the LDS "god" can change his mind on matters like that (and they were SUPER important to the LDS Church at the time), their "god" can definitely change his mind on gay marriage.
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LDS letter on same-sex marriage
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
That doesn't really matter. If the LDS "god" can change his mind on matters like that (and they were SUPER important to the LDS Church at the time), their "god" can definitely change his mind on gay marriage.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
It has already happened in 5 states.
Really? like what?
btw, I believe the acceptance of LDS membership as a "normal behavior" will see dire consequences in our society as a whole.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Mr Spinkles
Mr
I think if you look at the gay marriage laws that have been proposed, passed, or voted down, you will see that one side has consistently been extreme, and the other side has consistently been moderate and reasonable.
You would do well to remember the paranoid ramblings that LDS leaders offered as arguments against civil rights and desegregation, such as a speech delivered by Mark E. Peterson at Brigham Young University in 1954 (admittedly the documents are shown on an anti-mormon site, but the existence and contents of the speech are not disputed AFAIK):
"It is a good thing to understand exactly what the negro has in mind on this subject ... I would like to talk first of all about the negro and his civil rights.
...
I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people sit. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. From this and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have."
So back then, as today, the civil rights movement was portrayed by the religious right as sinister and extreme, trying to impose its will on our way of life. You see, what "the Negro" really wants is to force his blackness into our pure, delightsome white race. ...
I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after. He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people sit. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. From this and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage. That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have."
That despicable lie was useful for opposing equal rights for blacks. The same despicable lie is being used today: "the gay" doesn't really want equality, he really wants to force his gayness into our churches. Therefore, we must oppose moderate, reasonable proposals for LGBT equality.
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Essentially the same arguments were used, successfully, to rally LDS opposition to desegregation and the civil rights movement. See above.madhatter said:
Shame on you!
dallas1125
Covert Operative
Its not gonna happen instantly. After it becomes legal in all 50 states I would be surprised if no lawsuits happened against churches over this.
happyhummingbird
Member
I doubt there are going to be lawsuits. In some of those states, gay marriage has been legalized for a couple of year (at least), that would give people plenty of time to file lawsuits, yet it hasn't happened yet. I wonder why......
dallas1125
Covert Operative
How exactly?
dallas1125
Covert Operative
Because they know if they push those lawsuits, it will hurt the chances of legalizing it in the rest of the states.
happyhummingbird
Member
Really? You really think that? Not sure how your logic follows, but people who are gay usually don't belong to church's who won't marry them or they don't ask their church's too.
dallas1125
Covert Operative
Agreed, but am I coming off as extreme?
Most speeches given are not official doctrines of the church and rather the personal convictions of those who gave it.
Yes, I am critical of my churches stance on this issue. I dont think that the majority of people will start lawsuits but to say none is just as crazy as saying the majority will.
Yes, but are you denying the probability that a minority will start lawsuits over it?
dallas1125
Covert Operative
There are always a bunch of crazies in any group.
WBC is a prime example of it.
happyhummingbird
Member
Are you really calling WBC Christians are then comparing them to anybody within the GBLT crowd?
happyhummingbird
Member
What a cop-out.
You can say that to anything anybody in the LDS Church says whether you agree with it or not. So did the prophets just mess up with black and the priesthood? It was never really official doctrine, was it? This answer is used whenever a Mormon doesn't want to get into it and actually admit that things that the leaders say are practiced whether they are doctrine or not.
dallas1125
Covert Operative
Back then there were reasons for it. Your also forgetting the fact that some blacks had the priesthood too.
dallas1125
Covert Operative
Im not comparing, im pointing out that the GLBT group will have 1 or 2 crazies willing to sue churches just like the christians have those crazies willing to picket funerals.
Sure you can, but it doesn't make it true. Official doctrine is comprised solely of what is contained in the Standard Works and in statements issued by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve collectively (e.g. the Proclamation on the Family). You may not like it, but that's how it is.
This is so far off topic that it doesn't even deserve an answer.
Actually, there is doctrine and there are policies and procedures. There is a difference between them. Doctrines never change. Policies and procedures can and do -- fortunately. You evidently don't make a distinction. That's unfortunate but not surprising. The Church leadership has made a lot of mistakes over the past 181 years, as is the case in every other organized religion in the world.
My personal feelings (and it sounds like Dallas is with me on this) is that the LDS leadership was wrong in asking the members of the Church to do whatever they could to support Proposition 8. I have stated on multiple occasions that while I do not personally believe that God approves of homosexual intimacy, I am against any laws that would deny any segment of society their civil rights. I'm totally willing to leave matters of morality in God's hands. That puts me at odds with an LDS Church policy (denying same-sex marriages) but it does not put me at odds with LDS Church doctrine (believing that homosexual intimacy is sinful).
happyhummingbird
Member
. Do you think ordaining a few men justifies the years of racial abuse?
dallas1125
Covert Operative
If you wanna move this to a new thread, do so. This is off topic.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
Why Prop. 8 ruling signals decline of religious freedom | Modern CommentariesI doubt there are going to be lawsuits. In some of those states, gay marriage has been legalized for a couple of year (at least), that would give people plenty of time to file lawsuits, yet it hasn't happened yet. I wonder why......
It is filled with examples of the gay community's desires trumping religious freedom in lawsuits.
:clap