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LDS letter on same-sex marriage

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Again, you are comparing apples to oranges. Behavioral patters are not the same as religious movements. :rolleyes:
It's not a question of whether they're the same; it's a question of whether their differences should be relevant to the law. Any differences aren't relevant for what we're talking about here.

If you use your distaste of what one person does to justify prohibiting it, the others can do the same for you.

You justified your stance on same-sex marriage based on your religious beliefs, not on your religious belief and the fact that homosexuality is a "behavioural pattern". Throwing this red herring out after the fact is arguing in bad faith.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
It's not a question of whether they're the same; it's a question of whether their differences should be relevant to the law. Any differences aren't relevant for what we're talking about here.

they absolutely are relevant. When you propose a different scenario in a way to explain your position you cannot use examples that have nothing in common with the main topic.

Religion is a choice and is not behavioral.

Your position is that homosexuality is not a choice correct? Yet it is behavioral correct?

Apples and oranges dude.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
My ancestors have had no problem with same sex marriage for thousands of years.... others want us to re-define marriage to suit their ideas. Why should I have to change my definition to yours?
Why is your religious definition of marriage better than mine?

wa:do
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
My ancestors have had no problem with same sex marriage for thousands of years.... others want us to re-define marriage to suit their ideas. Why should I have to change my definition to yours?
Why is your religious definition of marriage better than mine?

wa:do

you are talking about the "two spirits" idea and that is hardly the same as same-sex marriage. it has two do with the idea that two spirits are occupying the same body.:rolleyes:
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
they absolutely are relevant.
No, they're not. You set it up that way yourself.

Here's how it works: when you argue that we should treat a particular thing (in this case same-sex marriage) in a certain way because of a given characteristic (in this case, the fact that a segment of the population thinks that God doesn't like it), then there are two possibilities:

- either all things that have that same characteristic should be treated that way as well.

- you're committing the logical fallacy of special pleading and your original argument is invalid.

If some other characteristic is relevant, then it's your job to identify it and justify why you think it's relevant.

When you propose a different scenario in a way to explain your position you cannot use examples that have nothing in common with the main topic.

Religion is a choice and is not behavioral.
That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard all day.

Choices are most definitely behavioural... or at least they are when they involve behaviours, like adhering to religious codes, or praying, or going to worship services. Religion is all about behaviour.

Your position is that homosexuality is not a choice correct? Yet it is behavioral correct?

Apples and oranges dude.
A: it's good to eat apples, because fruits and vegetables are an important part of a healthy diet.

B: but oranges are fruits, too. Doesn't that mean it's just as good to eat an orange as an apple?

A: no! Where did you get that from?! Apples and oranges, dude!
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
they absolutely are relevant. When you propose a different scenario in a way to explain your position you cannot use examples that have nothing in common with the main topic.

Religion is a choice and is not behavioral.

Your position is that homosexuality is not a choice correct? Yet it is behavioral correct?

Apples and oranges dude.

Isn't it your position that homosexuality is a choice? And that is relevant?
You don't think religion affects behavior?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
So, you are saying homosexuality is a choice just like religion, right?
No, I'm not saying that.

I know you're smart enough to understand what I'm writing, so I'm having a very hard time believing that you aren't just engaging in hand-waving to distract from the fact that you don't have a real argument.
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
I think you might want to re-learn your own history before speaking about it next time. :rolleyes:
Wow.... arrogant and ignorant much?

Two spirit is a term invented in the 1990's and doesn't fully cover the range of gender identities and expressions across First Nations culture. Generally the term covers only transgendered people who actively live as a member of the opposite sex. Not Gays and Lesbians.

While some nations believed people had two spirits this does not reflect Cherokee culture. Transgendered people were thought of as a third gender.

Nor does it reflect other nations like the Navajo who have seven gender pronouns none of which indicate having two spirits.

Perhaps you should learn some more before you assume you know what you are talking about? :slap:

Now before you make a bigger fool of yourself, perhaps you can address my point.
My ancestors have had no problem with same sex marriage for thousands of years.... others want us to re-define marriage to suit their ideas. Why should I have to change my definition to yours?
Why is your religious definition of marriage better than mine?
wa:do
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
Wow.... arrogant and ignorant much?

Two spirit is a term invented in the 1990's and doesn't fully cover the range of gender identities and expressions across First Nations culture. Generally the term covers only transgendered people who actively live as a member of the opposite sex. Not Gays and Lesbians.

While some nations believed people had two spirits this does not reflect Cherokee culture. Transgendered people were thought of as a third gender.

Nor does it reflect other nations like the Navajo who have seven gender pronouns none of which indicate having two spirits.

Perhaps you should learn some more before you assume you know what you are talking about? :slap:

Now before you make a bigger fool of yourself, perhaps you can address my point.
wa:do

can you provide some reference for this? :sarcastic
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
can you provide some reference for this? :sarcastic
OMG....
read a freaking book! Lang, Men as Women, Women as Men, University of Texas Press

At the very least give Wiki a spin... Two-Spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Two-Spirit Identity Theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now... about my question... again:
My ancestors have had no problem with same sex marriage for thousands of years.... others want us to re-define marriage to suit their ideas. Why should I have to change my definition to yours?
Why is your religious definition of marriage better than mine?

wa:do
 
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