Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
What was especially mean as well as dishonest was prohibiting gay people from marrying, and then citing the lack of married gay couples--against them! That's diabolical.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
LDS letter on same-sex marriage
- Thread starter 9-10ths_Penguin
- Start date
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
To save all the trouble of reading all the many valid studies using good methodology, here's the most widely used summary, by Charlotte Patterson, Ph.D:
Studies of other aspects of personal development among children of lesbian and gay parents have assessed a broad array of characteristics. ... As was the case for sexual identity, studies of these aspects of personal development have revealed no major differences between children of lesbian versus heterosexual mothers.
When comparing such children to the children of opposite-sex parents there tends to be no difference "on measures of popularity, social adjustment, gender role behavior, gender identity, intelligence, self-concept, emotional problems, interest in marriage and parenting, locus of control, moral development, independence, ego functions, object relations, or self esteem.
Meyer, "Legal, Psychological, and Medical Considerations in Lesbian Parenting," Law & Sexuality: Rev. Lesbian & Gay Legal Issues. Pages 239 & 240 (1992).
Studies of other aspects of personal development among children of lesbian and gay parents have assessed a broad array of characteristics. ... As was the case for sexual identity, studies of these aspects of personal development have revealed no major differences between children of lesbian versus heterosexual mothers.
When comparing such children to the children of opposite-sex parents there tends to be no difference "on measures of popularity, social adjustment, gender role behavior, gender identity, intelligence, self-concept, emotional problems, interest in marriage and parenting, locus of control, moral development, independence, ego functions, object relations, or self esteem.
Meyer, "Legal, Psychological, and Medical Considerations in Lesbian Parenting," Law & Sexuality: Rev. Lesbian & Gay Legal Issues. Pages 239 & 240 (1992).
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
idea: You realize that the part of your study that you highlighted was where they described people's prior conceptions, not the result of the research, right? The research showed........NO DIFFERENCE.
the only way you could cite that study and assert that there was a difference would be if you were lying. Or had a serious reading comprehension problem. Either way, you have to feel sorry for those Mormons.
the only way you could cite that study and assert that there was a difference would be if you were lying. Or had a serious reading comprehension problem. Either way, you have to feel sorry for those Mormons.
I thought we were.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
So, what you're saying is that you want every inch of land in the world to have people living on it? You want every area, small or large, to be like New York City?
Even if there is still plenty of land to occupy, and we have a lot of space to spread out, we are still reproducing at a rate that will get us to the point that we absolutely need every habitable piece of land there is. The population just keeps rising. Now, it's at 6 billion. I remember not too long ago when it was at 4.5 billion. Pretty soon it'll get up to 10 billion, and then 15 billion, unless something stops that from happening. If the number just keeps going up, logic says that we will eventually run out of room here. Why should we promote that eventuality? I'd rather do what we can now to avoid it.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
So Mormons-opposed-to-gay-parenting, do any of you know any gay parents?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Well, if anyone is interested in the specific studies, just ask and I will get them for you. I have posted the meta-observation from a social scientist who reviewed all of them. What do child welfare organizations think about the subject? Not pro-gay organizations, but general child welfare organizations, such as the group that your pediatrician belongs to?
The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
Outcome studies of children raised by parents with a homosexual or bisexual orientation, when compared to heterosexual parents, show no greater degree of instability in the parental relationship or developmental dysfunction in children.
American Academy of Family Physicians
RESOLVED, That the AAFP establish policy and be supportive of legislation which promotes a safe and nurturing environment, including psychological and legal security, for all children, including those of adoptive parents, regardless of the parents' sexual orientation.
American Academy of Pediatrics
The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual.
A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes.
American Psychological Association
there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: Lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children (Patterson, 2000, 2004; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999);
North American Council on Adoptable Children
Children should not be denied a permanent family because of the sexual orientation of potential parents. Everyone with the potential to successfully parent a child in foster care or adoption is entitled to fair and equal consideration.
Note: These are all mainstream, respected professional organizations, not weird offshoots created to push an agenda. There is not one--NOT ONE--that takes a different position. If you find a contrary position, it's from a right-wing offshoot group created specifically to oppose the truth about gay people.
The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
Outcome studies of children raised by parents with a homosexual or bisexual orientation, when compared to heterosexual parents, show no greater degree of instability in the parental relationship or developmental dysfunction in children.
American Academy of Family Physicians
RESOLVED, That the AAFP establish policy and be supportive of legislation which promotes a safe and nurturing environment, including psychological and legal security, for all children, including those of adoptive parents, regardless of the parents' sexual orientation.
American Academy of Pediatrics
The American Academy of Pediatrics recognizes that a considerable body of professional literature provides evidence that children with parents who are homosexual can have the same advantages and the same expectations for health, adjustment, and development as can children whose parents are heterosexual.
A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes.
American Psychological Association
there is no scientific evidence that parenting effectiveness is related to parental sexual orientation: Lesbian and gay parents are as likely as heterosexual parents to provide supportive and healthy environments for their children (Patterson, 2000, 2004; Perrin, 2002; Tasker, 1999);
North American Council on Adoptable Children
Children should not be denied a permanent family because of the sexual orientation of potential parents. Everyone with the potential to successfully parent a child in foster care or adoption is entitled to fair and equal consideration.
Note: These are all mainstream, respected professional organizations, not weird offshoots created to push an agenda. There is not one--NOT ONE--that takes a different position. If you find a contrary position, it's from a right-wing offshoot group created specifically to oppose the truth about gay people.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
I am opposed to gay parenting because it promotes and sanctions immorality. Also, those children grow up loosing out on one gender of parenting, meaning they are then lacking in parenting and learning.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
oh yeah.
I forgot your "immoral" fail safe.
Is that a "no"?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Now would you answer the question?
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I am opposed to the LDS Church because it promotes and sanctions immorality. In particular, it specializes in brain-washing little children to believe lies like this. However, unlike you, I defend and respect your right to practice it, because I recognize that I am not in charge of your morality, and the only power that I have or should have over you is the power to persuade you, not to decide your morality for you. The fact that you don't recognize this necessary part of the social compact is why you represent a pernicious influence on society.
So, does this "lack" have any negative effect on the children, outside your head that is?
At least my children don't lack exposure to reality.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Here's the one, the big, the mongo point, madhatter. I understand that you think that gay sex is immoral. You get to think that, no matter how crazy it is. And what you get to do about it is: Not have gay sex. That is all. You may also try to persuade other people to agree with you. What you don't get to do is base public policy on that belief. That would be wrong.
Similarly, you disagree with gay parenting. So make sure that your co-parent is a different sex from you. If you think you can martial some actual facts in support of your false, wrong, and misinformed opinion, go for it. Do you have any, by the way, or is it sheer prejudice? What you don't get to do is to try to shape public policy to prevent anyone else from being a gay parent. To do that, your opinion would need to be based in something we like to call reality.
Similarly, you disagree with gay parenting. So make sure that your co-parent is a different sex from you. If you think you can martial some actual facts in support of your false, wrong, and misinformed opinion, go for it. Do you have any, by the way, or is it sheer prejudice? What you don't get to do is to try to shape public policy to prevent anyone else from being a gay parent. To do that, your opinion would need to be based in something we like to call reality.
idea
Question Everything
A bunch of statements (I see no data on these sites) by activist groups that support homosexual parenting "rights” does nothing to impress me… sorry.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,29901,00.html
The report, by sociology professors at the University of Southern California, says that that, contrary to earlier assertions, children of same-sex parents exhibit significant differences when compared to children raised by heterosexual couples.
http://www.drtraycehansen.com/Pages/writings_sexpref.html
A Review and Analysis of Research Studies Which Assessed Sexual Preference of Children Raised by Homosexuals
Pro-homosexual researchers frequently claim studies find "no differences" between children raised by homosexuals and heterosexuals. Amazingly, these claims are made in the abstracts of research studies that actually uncovered differences (Williams, 2000). The tendency to deny or downplay differences has been noted by pro-homosexual parenting researchers. After reviewing 21 studies, Stacey and Biblarz (2001) concluded that in regards to gender, sexual behavior and sexual preference, homosexually parented children are different from heterosexually parented children. But despite such findings, many continue to proclaim "no differences" in order to galvanize support for homosexual access to fertility services, adoption, custody, and same-sex marriage. Encouraging support for a cause is fine, as long as the information being disseminated is true. But in this case, it isn't. – Please read entire article
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_mar13.htm
Those who advocate same-sex marriage often point to studies which show that children raised in two-parent families do well, regardless of whether the parents are of the same sex or opposite sex. But most of these studies are deeply flawed because:
1. They involve self-selected subjects, and/or
2. They do not study families over a sufficiently long interval, and/or
3. They demonstrate bias on the part of the researchers.
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2004/apr/040428c.html
According to the Association, "studies have shown almost no difference in sexual preference or in psychosocial development for children of same-sex parents." On what basis did the Association reach such a conclusion? Certainly, it could not have looked at recent findings in social science journals to reach this conclusion. If the Association had troubled itself to look at the current literature, it would have, in all decency, been disturbed by their conclusions, and, with professional integrity, issued quite a different statement. – Please read entire article…
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1168934/posts
ADULT CHILDREN SPEAK OUT ABOUT SAME-SEX PARENTS
It was the TV pictures that first got to Bronagh Cassidy. Same-sex couples marrying in San Francisco: "They were so proud of themselves. And then they had these little children with them." Cassidy, a 27-year-old married mother of two, sighs. "Something inside of me wants to be able to help those kids, because I know they are going to have problems." … read through entire article…
http://www.acpeds.org/?CONTEXT=art&cat=22&art=50
American College of Pediatricians
Are children reared by two individuals of the same gender as well adjusted as children reared in families with a mother and a father? Until recently the unequivocal answer to this question was "no." Policymakers, social scientists, the media, and even physician organizations1, however, are now asserting that prohibitions on parenting by homosexual couples should be lifted. In making such far-reaching, generation-changing assertions, any responsible advocate would rely upon supporting evidence that is comprehensive and conclusive. Not only is this not the situation, but also there is sound evidence that children exposed to the homosexual lifestyle may be at increased risk for emotional, mental, and even physical harm. (Please see all the refs of studies at end of link)_
Risks of Homosexual Lifestyle to Children
Violence among homosexual partners is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples. 10,11,12,13,14
Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years. 15,16,17
Homosexual men and women are reported to be inordinately promiscuous involving serial sex partners, even within what are loosely-termed "committed relationships." 18,19,20,21,22
Individuals who practice a homosexual lifestyle are more likely than heterosexuals to experience mental illness,23,24,25 substance abuse,26 suicidal tendencies,27,28 and shortened life spans.29
Although some would claim that these dysfunctions are a result of societal pressures in America, the same dysfunctions exist at inordinately high levels among homosexuals in cultures were the practice is more widely accepted.30
Children reared in homosexual households are more likely to experience sexual confusion, practice homosexual behavior, and engage in sexual experimentation. 31,32,33,34,35
Adolescents and young adults who adopt the homosexual lifestyle, like their adult counterparts, are at increased risk of mental health problems, including major depression, anxiety disorder, conduct disorder, substance dependence, and especially suicidal ideation and suicide attempts.36
#''s refer to refs - papers that show these trends, please scroll down the page to endnotes for studies. - http://www.acpeds.org/?CONTEXT=art&cat=22&art=50
Last edited:
Funny... you declare the American Psychology Association and American Association of Family Physicians to be "activist groups" and respond to them with claims from "LifeSite" and Free Republic?
Do you really not see an inconsistency here?
McBell
Admiral Obvious
But it is consistent:
Promote that which ratifies my beliefs whilst dissing that which doesn't.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Bigotry and hypocrisy go hand in hand.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
First, obviously adolescents and young adults who adopt the homosexual lifestyle are going to be at an increased risk of mental health problems like depression, etc. That's because of people like you. You say it's the same in countries where it's more accepted, but I doubt that. Homosexuals will encounter harsh bigotry pretty much no matter where they are. Aside from that, I'd be curious as to how these figures were obtained.
You use the stereotype about gay people being more promiscuous. That is not backed up by any reliable information. It is simply false. Homosexuals are promiscuous on the same level as heterosexuals are. They are not significantly more so, or necessarily less so.
Another fallacy I've seen used a few times now is the comparison of gay relationships to heterosexual marriages. If you really want to compare, then you have to compare heterosexual relationships to homosexual relationships. Otherwise, the numbers are obviously going to be skewed.
Finally, even if all of your claims here are true and founded on good data, does this mean that homosexuals should not marry? Should we start deciding who can and can't get married based on possibilities of mental problems or other types of problems? Where does it end? It is one of those slippery slopes. We shouldn't let these people get married because their children might turn out bad. Next, it's another group whose kids might have problems, so they can't get married. It's just not a good basis for disallowing marriage.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Don't forget Fox "News".
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
I agree, religions such Mormonism are far, far more immoral and dangerous to children than homosexuality could ever be, but like you said they're lucky we have a little thing called freedom in this country. As a man who loves liberty I too respect their right to believe and practice as they wish. It's just a damn shame they're not decent enough to extend the very same to others and respect their rights as well.