• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

LDS Members Should Vote for Obama

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As November approaches, certain LDS members should carefully consider their infatuation with the Republican party. Such consideration should include an analysis of the Democratic party, measuring its ideals to those professed by the Church. If an LDS member were to make such a comparison with an open mind, he or she would discover that the Democratic party is the right party for the Church. In short, the LDS member will discover that he or she should vote for Obama.

1. The Democratic Party is More Accepting of Diversity than the Republican Party.
In other threads, Jonny has done an excellent job of demonstrating the GOP's true feelings about Mormons. Despite the fact that Utah is the most red state in the Union, GOP leaders played the religion card to attack Romney when he was being considered first for president and then for vice president.

The GOP makes much of the fact that it has its first female vice presidential candidate in Sarah Palin. When did the Dems have their first? In the 1980s - perhaps before some of you were born.

When it comes to civil liberties, it has been the Dems in recent years who have pushed for equality for blacks, women, and (dare I say it) homosexuals.

Christ was accepting of diversity. He told parables about Samaritans. He protected sinners, such as the adulterous.

2. Abortion is not a Republican / Democrat issue - it is an issue of personal character.
Many point to abortion as their reason for being a Republican. First of all, the nation is bigger than this one issue. Second, pro-life Democrats exist. They walk the halls of Congress. To base one's party affiliation on this one issue is fall into the trap of the wedge issue - an issue designed to keep voters from truly uniting for what would best help them.

3. Democrats fight for the workers of America - the majority of citizens.
When the Church provides benefits to its struggling members does it give benefits directly to these members or to those above them, hoping the benefits will "trickle down"? Of course the Church gives it directly to the members! The Welfare Queen that Reagan spoke of is a myth. The working poor is a real class of people who need assistance. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Thousands of children IN THIS COUNTRY go to bed every night with hungry stomachs.

The Democrats have best responded to the needs of working America and they've done it without handouts. The Works Progress Administration and the Conservation Corps have put hundreds of thousands of people to work.

In short, Democrates have loved their neighbors and helped them when Republicans would rather buy new yachts and beach houses.

4. Democrats take better care of one of the greatest gifts God has ever given us: This Earth.
Republicans claim global warming is a myth and the increase in temperatures the result of a cyclical nature. Democrats recognize we have been trashing the earth - consuming resources and polluting nature. God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the Garden of Eden and, by extension, gave us dominion over this Earth.

I cringe when I hear Republicans launch attacks against movies such as Wall-E. They call it propaganda and talk of the movie's "agenda." My response: So What??? Why is it bad to teach that we should take care of this Earth? Why is it bad to teach we shouldn't trash the planet? Why is it bad to teach that we should move our butts rather than let machines do everything for us? Why? Obesity epidemic, anyone?

5. Democrats are willing to talk to our adversaries rather than covering their eyes and ears as they launch military attacks against our enemies.
There is a time and place for military action - however, current Republicans have taken the War on Terror to a whole other level. Diplomacy is out the window. We have infuriated our enemy and, what's worse, we have lost some friends.

President Hinkley was a great communicator - willing to accept the differences between groups of people. Likewise, the Democratic leaders have demonstrated a greater ability to communicate with those who are not like us (for that is the main reason we fight). They talk first - fight later. All the great empires have fallen and if we continue down the path of "might makes right" then we too shall fall.

Conclusion
This is just a hastily put together post. But I hope it demonstrates that the Democratic party is not some evil corruption that Church members should avoid. In fact, I hope it demonstrates a few ways that the Democratic party is actually more in tune with the Church than the Republican party.

As you approach the polls this November, remember that you've been disowned by the Republican party. The Mormon Church is the red-headed step-child of the GOP. Find the party that is more welcoming and accepting of your beliefs and the freedom to have them.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
2. Abortion is not a Republican / Democrat issue - it is an issue of personal character.
Many point to abortion as their reason for being a Republican. First of all, the nation is bigger than this one issue. Second, pro-life Democrats exist. They walk the halls of Congress. To base one's party affiliation on this one issue is fall into the trap of the wedge issue - an issue designed to keep voters from truly uniting for what would best help them.
I think it's silly that so many Mormons vote on this issue and this issue alone - it's already been settled by the Supreme Court. I don't envision it being made illegal any time soon, so I figure that we might as well focus on issues where things can actually be changed, such as how our tax structure affects the middle class, the environment, whether or not we should support preemptive wars, etc.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think it's silly that so many Mormons vote on this issue and this issue alone - it's already been settled by the Supreme Court. I don't envision it being made illegal any time soon, so I figure that we might as well focus on issues where things can actually be changed, such as how our tax structure affects the middle class, the environment, whether or not we should support preemptive wars, etc.

Very true.

I think a lot of people would be surprised to learn that a Conservative supreme court has had the chance to overturn Roe v. Wade and has refused to done so. Like you, I don't expect that to change in the future.

Personally, I've never understood one-issue voters. We're choosing a package - not an issue.
 

jonny

Well-Known Member
I used to be a huge supporter of this war - read through my past debates if you don't believe it. After reading the Book of Mormon recently, I completely changed my mind. I don't know how any Latter-day Saint can support a preemptive war without putting their political beliefs above their religious beliefs. The scriptures - Book of Mormon and D&C - make it crystal clear that the only time war is justified is in defense.

America shouldn't be starting wars. We should be stopping them.
 

stacey bo bacey

oh no you di'int
As November approaches, certain LDS members should carefully consider their infatuation with the Republican party. Such consideration should include an analysis of the Democratic party, measuring its ideals to those professed by the Church. If an LDS member were to make such a comparison with an open mind, he or she would discover that the Democratic party is the right party for the Church. In short, the LDS member will discover that he or she should vote for Obama.

1. The Democratic Party is More Accepting of Diversity than the Republican Party.
In other threads, Jonny has done an excellent job of demonstrating the GOP's true feelings about Mormons. Despite the fact that Utah is the most red state in the Union, GOP leaders played the religion card to attack Romney when he was being considered first for president and then for vice president.

The GOP makes much of the fact that it has its first female vice presidential candidate in Sarah Palin. When did the Dems have their first? In the 1980s - perhaps before some of you were born.

When it comes to civil liberties, it has been the Dems in recent years who have pushed for equality for blacks, women, and (dare I say it) homosexuals.

Christ was accepting of diversity. He told parables about Samaritans. He protected sinners, such as the adulterous.

2. Abortion is not a Republican / Democrat issue - it is an issue of personal character.
Many point to abortion as their reason for being a Republican. First of all, the nation is bigger than this one issue. Second, pro-life Democrats exist. They walk the halls of Congress. To base one's party affiliation on this one issue is fall into the trap of the wedge issue - an issue designed to keep voters from truly uniting for what would best help them.

3. Democrats fight for the workers of America - the majority of citizens.
When the Church provides benefits to its struggling members does it give benefits directly to these members or to those above them, hoping the benefits will "trickle down"? Of course the Church gives it directly to the members! The Welfare Queen that Reagan spoke of is a myth. The working poor is a real class of people who need assistance. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Thousands of children IN THIS COUNTRY go to bed every night with hungry stomachs.

The Democrats have best responded to the needs of working America and they've done it without handouts. The Works Progress Administration and the Conservation Corps have put hundreds of thousands of people to work.

In short, Democrates have loved their neighbors and helped them when Republicans would rather buy new yachts and beach houses.

4. Democrats take better care of one of the greatest gifts God has ever given us: This Earth.
Republicans claim global warming is a myth and the increase in temperatures the result of a cyclical nature. Democrats recognize we have been trashing the earth - consuming resources and polluting nature. God gave Adam and Eve dominion over the Garden of Eden and, by extension, gave us dominion over this Earth.

I cringe when I hear Republicans launch attacks against movies such as Wall-E. They call it propaganda and talk of the movie's "agenda." My response: So What??? Why is it bad to teach that we should take care of this Earth? Why is it bad to teach we shouldn't trash the planet? Why is it bad to teach that we should move our butts rather than let machines do everything for us? Why? Obesity epidemic, anyone?

5. Democrats are willing to talk to our adversaries rather than covering their eyes and ears as they launch military attacks against our enemies.
There is a time and place for military action - however, current Republicans have taken the War on Terror to a whole other level. Diplomacy is out the window. We have infuriated our enemy and, what's worse, we have lost some friends.

President Hinkley was a great communicator - willing to accept the differences between groups of people. Likewise, the Democratic leaders have demonstrated a greater ability to communicate with those who are not like us (for that is the main reason we fight). They talk first - fight later. All the great empires have fallen and if we continue down the path of "might makes right" then we too shall fall.

Conclusion
This is just a hastily put together post. But I hope it demonstrates that the Democratic party is not some evil corruption that Church members should avoid. In fact, I hope it demonstrates a few ways that the Democratic party is actually more in tune with the Church than the Republican party.

As you approach the polls this November, remember that you've been disowned by the Republican party. The Mormon Church is the red-headed step-child of the GOP. Find the party that is more welcoming and accepting of your beliefs and the freedom to have them.


:clap Excellent! Frubalicious :p
 

idea

Question Everything
LOL! I just found this thread.

I think it's silly that so many Mormons vote on this issue and this issue alone - it's already been settled by the Supreme Court.

Many medical advances have been made, We now know that there is a baby who can think, feel, see, hear,… in the womb. We are now better able to define when life starts.

I used to be a huge supporter of this war - read through my past debates if you don't believe it. After reading the Book of Mormon recently, I completely changed my mind. I don't know how any Latter-day Saint can support a preemptive war without putting their political beliefs above their religious beliefs. The scriptures - Book of Mormon and D&C - make it crystal clear that the only time war is justified is in defense.

America shouldn't be starting wars. We should be stopping them.

do you remember 9-11? I do.
911TwinTowers.jpg


fallingman-wide.jpg
 
Last edited:

jonny

Well-Known Member
LOL! I just found this thread.



Many medical advances have been made, We now know that there is a baby who can think, feel, see, hear,… in the womb. We are now better able to define when life starts.

That doesn't change that the issue has already been decided by the Supreme Court.
 

idea

Question Everything
1. The Democratic Party is More Accepting of Diversity than the Republican Party. [/quote[

LOL! They would like you to think that. Obama's fav pres- Lincoln - was a republican. The Democrats supported slavery. It was the republicans that fought and won the civil war.

have to run. funny thread.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
1. The Democratic Party is More Accepting of Diversity than the Republican Party. [/quote[

LOL! They would like you to think that. Obama's fav pres- Lincoln - was a republican. The Democrats supported slavery. It was the republicans that fought and won the civil war.

have to run. funny thread.

So you base your decisions on facts hundreds of years old? How about the last 30 years? Get relevant.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
do you remember 9-11? I do.

Which is exactly why we *shouldn't* be in Iraq. Iraq had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and our unjustified invasion has only served to fuel the kind of sentiment and hostilies that caused 9/11 in the first place. Perhaps if we hadn't wasted lives, resources and time in Iraq, we might've captured or killed Osama bin Laden by now. Remember him, Idea?

But anyway, evoking "9/11" is such a lame, tired appeal to emotion. But fortunately anyone versed in what's actually going on in the world can see right through such a cheap tactic.
 
Last edited:

jonny

Well-Known Member
1. The Democratic Party is More Accepting of Diversity than the Republican Party. [/quote[

LOL! They would like you to think that. Obama's fav pres- Lincoln - was a republican. The Democrats supported slavery. It was the republicans that fought and won the civil war.

have to run. funny thread.

The Republicans also called Mormons (well, polygamy) one of the twin relics of barbarism, along with slavery, in its first platform. The Republicans wanted to go after the Mormons after they were done with Slavery, but Lincoln and Brigham worked things out (much to the chagrin of the party).
 

sputnik323

Goat licker
I don’t think religion should play any part in your political ideals. LDS people like all people should look at what issues are important and what promises political parties really can fulfill. I have lived in very republican and very democrat areas. I like to stay in the middle but sometimes records need to be set straight.
response to 1. sorry but this is a load of crap. Racists are everywhere; democrat and whatever else too, republicans accept diversity and have had interracial candidates and cabinet members alike. To do a blanket sweep saying reps are LESS accepting than dems is wrong.

response to 2 and jonny's comment. The supreme court ruled, but it 'made' legislation from the bench, there was no way it would have ever passed through congress at the time. Maybe abortion wont be made illegal but how about partial birth abortion, late term abortion, and letting babies who survive abortion procedures and set in a closet to die be made illegal (Obama fought against a bill disallowing the last one)
response to 3. I don’t know where you are getting your information on this one. Dems protect unions not the workers. Raising the minimum wage ... and look what happened, unemployment went up.. among who? minimum wage workers. nice one there dems. Rich get richer and the poor poorer? don’t think so, the middle class got smaller, but they didn't go to lower class, the upper class has gotten bigger. the poor are some of the most rich people in the world... travel around the world and you will see what truly poor means. (there is a reason illegal immigration is epidemic here) BTW why don’t you look at donations of Obama in the past... he didn't give much compared to republican contemporaries... so who is really saving to buy yachts?

response to 4. republicans don’t claim that the world isn't warming, but that man isn’t' the main contributor. The only people who are declaring the argument over are dems with an agenda. Science isn't a cut and dry easy thing. should we take care of the earth.. yes. but let me ask you this, what do you think the world would be like with no energy, everyone having to use fires to heat their houses again, much cleaner there(sarcastic) :p Dems are blocking new energy even if its clean like wind turbines because they don’t like power lines and they hate dams on rivers (not much cleaner energy then that)... dems need to pull their head out on this one. propaganda is bad because it is using lies or half truths to make an argument. There are real arguments for going green, don’t lie, or I will leave my stove just for spite.

response to 5. sure lets talk to enemies, it helps, but talking didn't do a lot to stop Nazis, the Soviets, and rogue nations today who want power, domination and wealth. For those who listen and will respond to diplomacy .. sure lets go for it.

conclusion - this was a hasty response, but look... no mater who you are.. look at the candidate not the party on both sides. I will vote for dem or rep if the candidate is a good one... I looked at obama, thought he might be good. Then looked at what he wants to accomplish, and he cannot deliver on his promises, he is another politician that will promise anything to get elected. mccain isn't much better, he will stubbornly do what he thinks is right even when he is wrong. not much choice this election but sometimes you have to pick the lesser of 2 evils.
 
Last edited:

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
LOL! They would like you to think that. Obama's fav pres- Lincoln - was a republican. The Democrats supported slavery. It was the republicans that fought and won the civil war.

have to run. funny thread.

Do you really think the state of the parties well over one hundred years ago bares any reflection upon the parties today? Funny how you don't mention who supported gender and racial equality during the next century.
 
Last edited:

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Lets start here:

response to 1. sorry but this is a load of crap. Racists are everywhere; democrat and whatever else too, republicans accept diversity and have had interracial candidates and cabinet members alike. To do a blanket sweep saying reps are LESS accepting than dems is wrong.

Who opposed the civil rights movement?

Who is currently opposing gay marriage?

Answer: Republicans.

I never used the word racist - I was talking about which party made forward accomplishments and which one did not.
 

Apex

Somewhere Around Nothing
How about I don't vote for either party since they both suck. I laugh every time I see someone try to say that one party "cares" more about the individual people than the other.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
How about I don't vote for either party since they both suck. I laugh every time I see someone try to say that one party "cares" more about the individual people than the other.

Then remove "cares" and look to who has done more for average Americans. The answer is easy.
 

sputnik323

Goat licker
you are wrong about the civil rights movement... read up on your history The Democrat Party’s Long and Shameful History of Bigotry and Racism --- "It took the hard work of Republican Senate Minority Leader Everett Dirksen and Republican Whip Thomas Kuchel to pass the Civil Rights Act (Dirksen was presented a civil rights accomplishment award for the year by the head of the NAACP in recognition of his efforts). Upon breaking the Democrat filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Republican Dirksen took to the Senate floor and exclaimed "The time has come for equality of opportunity in sharing in government, in education, and in employment. It will not be stayed or denied. It is here!"

what argument do you have for changing the definition of marriage? should we allow plural marriage too? what about the rights of Warren jeffs... how far should we go? if you are going to start changes where do we stop and why? I think you should think about this...

the comment about racist was to show that it transends political parties.. ... what specific accomplishments are you talkign about?
 
Last edited:

jonny

Well-Known Member
I'm fine with plural marriage. As long as it's between consenting adults, people should have the right to define marriage themselves. We don't need the government invading our lives any more than it does already.
 

sputnik323

Goat licker
I'm fine with plural marriage. As long as it's between consenting adults, people should have the right to define marriage themselves. We don't need the government invading our lives any more than it does already.

BTW Im not against plural marriage or Same sex marriage... however, Im not sure the consequences of changing the definition of marriage will necessarily be a good thing...
 
Top