LDS Members Should Vote for Obama

[lilithu]

You say diversity is political issue, so Im wondering how?

I think I already made that clear. The party who's positions and attitudes are in tune with the diversity of people that *is* America will attract more diversity. If a party takes positions that hurt certain groups of people, it's much less likely that there those people will be members of the party. The results speak for themselves.

So... in your own words, because America is diverse, only a diverse party would represent its interests. Applying your logic, lets pretend your Japanese... because using other people to make a point seems to go right past you... Aparently you believe that being Japanese all other Japanese people think like you, and would only represent your interests... All non-japanese people would not.

But just as each Japanese person is different, diversity cannot be lumped in together. Your putting people into categories based on race, which is the same thing racists do. Not all women are pro-choice, not all African Americans believe in the DNC platforms.
Because the DNC platfroms speak to race just reinforces the idea that they are buying votes for making race a political issue.

Sorry, but your argument is ridiculous. (That's me being polite.) I am arguing for diverse representation and you're picking one ethnicity. Those two are not equivalent; quite the opposite. Of course a Japanese delegate is not automatically be more representative of me, even if I were Japanese. But having a diverse group of representatives means that they have the experience of interacting with people of different backgrounds and perspectives. It means that they are open to interacting with diverse people. And that would represent me, and others. It ain't rocket science.

Transending racial politics may be one reason the RNC is less diverse.

ROTFLMAO!!! :biglaugh:

Seriously, you're too funny.

 

[sputnik323]

I think I already made that clear. The party who's positions and attitudes are in tune with the diversity of people that *is* America will attract more diversity. If a party takes positions that hurt certain groups of people, it's much less likely that there those people will be members of the party. The results speak for themselves.

Keep telling yourself that... didn't know that 24% of america (the people who vote democrat) IS america... diversity is not in and of itself a policy... you keep making stuff up.. what positions are hurtful to certain groups of people; which ones are helpful? you never answer .. your answer has always been it is because it is... sry but that doesn't work.

Sorry, but your argument is ridiculous. (That's me being polite.) I am arguing for diverse representation and you're picking one ethnicity. Those two are not equivalent; quite the opposite. Of course a Japanese delegate is not automatically be more representative of me, even if I were Japanese. But having a diverse group of representatives means that they have the experience of interacting with people of different backgrounds and perspectives. It means that they are open to interacting with diverse people. And that would represent me, and others. It ain't rocket science.

ok .. I see you understand one point.. that hypothetically a japanese person would not be representive of you... now multiply that by all the delegates of all different ethnicities (because your point is their race and diversity alone is what matters) apparently you think diversity alone *IS* substance.
JUST BECAUSE A GROUP IS DIVERSE IS NOT IN AND OF ITSELF BETTER ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE DIVERSE (diverse groups of people hate Jews... should we accept that? they are diverse). being open to others suggestions is not a policy... interacting with people of different perspectives isnt a policy... singing kum ba yah and smoking hash with everyone and anyone isn't a policy. You can be open to hearing different perspectives by different ways of thinking alone, because someone shares the same race or background doesn't mean they share the same thinking. The DNC do not have a monopoly on interacting with different groups.

Im glad that being open to a racially diverse population alone is representative of you (thats real deep)... hopefully there are people out there that vote on important issues and not how open a group seems to be and give them a pass on issues because they appear diverse. unlike you.. I dont care is Obama or most of the delegates are black, white or green, if he (and they) had more positions I believed in, I would vote for him (them).
If the DNC is really open to other perspectives why do they keep throwing out people who dont believe like they do out of the party? (IE pro-lifers, Joe Liberman, ect.) They are only accepting of people who think like them... and call those who dont believe like them Nazi's? sounds like an open group to me

Even if a million people say a stupid thing, it still is stupid.

 

[lilithu]

Even if a million people say a stupid thing, it still is stupid.

Mmm.... finally something that we can agree on.

Don't know if what I said was beyond your understanding or you just refuse to acknowledge it. (Probably a little of both.) Either way, it's a waste of time to continue this. Diversity means the people have had similar experiences and share a similar viewpoint (namely, being open to diversity and realizing that race, gender, class, religion etc DOES influence how you see things). If you can't (or refuse to) understand the difference between my wanting a representative who looks like me versus wanting a representative who has had similar experiences and shares a similar viewpoint to me then God help you. God help us all.

Obama doesn't look any more like me than McCain does, fwiw. But I know that he lives in a multi-cultural world where lots of different viewpoints interact with each other and he has learned to see value in different perspectives. McCain less so, but certainly still better than Bush. Palin scares the crap out of me, because even her admirers talk about how she refuses to listen to anything other than her own way, as if that's a good thing.

 

[sputnik323]

Mmm.... finally something that we can agree on.

There is probably more than you would imagine...

Don't know if what I said was beyond your understanding or you just refuse to acknowledge it. (Probably a little of both.).

Of course I have acknowledged it.. I have said several times that diversity is a good thing. (but I disagree with you that it is the most important thing) issues are. - and Ill try once again to explain why - From a bottom up approach instead of top down.

Issue: Illegal Immigration-

Illegal immigration is a serious problem. It is the modern slave trade system! The US hasn't stopped slavery it has just changed faces. I personally know people who hire illegal aliens for work and then do not pay them. Not only do these jackasses exploit honest good people out of work but they hurt honest competition by being able to not pay employees or employee benefits and other related costs. I have known people who do pay their illegal alien workers, but much less than minimum wage. This is just the beginning of the problem. When these people are brought to the US many times the people who agree to take them (AKA Coyotes) will threaten to call the police on them if they don’t work for almost free for years. Many women are also promised a good job only to be forced into prostitution, raped, and beaten until they comply and told if they try to escape their families will be killed. Many of these exploited slaves do not go to the police in fear that they will only be put in jail or shipped back home to poverty that makes the poorest in the US look like reasonable living. Having an illegal slave trade also involves the drug trade. A weak border lets criminals behead and kidnap people(an increasing phenomenon in the border states). And the drug trade in and of itself causes billions in damage to the criminal system and financial systems of this country. I can go on and on and on... but then no one would read this, if you want more information just look it up, there is tons out there.

So you see ... here is an issue that I strongly believe in. We should not exploit others for cheap labor. People may say I’m a hatemonger and people who want to stop illegal immigration only don’t want to lose American jobs.. but that’s bs... give 50 million guest worker permits for all I care(we obviously have room they are already here), let them work for at least minimum wage, be able to go home to their families at Christmas, let them not be afraid of going to the police. We need to secure our borders, fix the broken legal and illegal immigration problem, and help people who are exploited in horrible ways.

That being said... which party wants to do something about this?

The all wise and *DIVERSE* DNC? no - they don’t have nor talk about this issue as any priority, they do want to give illegal aliens voting rights to expand their diverse base. But any real solutions? no.

The RNC? a little better but not perfect. they want to and attempt to secure the border and want to help the service men and women who protect us. And have tried to come up with solutions (if you are interested at all I could so you where to look it up).

Ok I know you haven’t' liked my examples in the past, and this is only one issue, but I think, and you probably think I’m stupid and don’t get it, that issues and beliefs are more important than talk and diversity. I give the RNC more of my attention because of this issue, and there are more issues (that was only one example), and sometimes the DNC has it more right on other issues. The point is... you can have all the diversity in the world (which is a good thing), but if the more diverse party does not come up with solutions and acknowledge problems what good is diversity alone?

I noticed nothing was mentioned about a great diversity of people that hate the Jews... can't you see and acknowledge that having diversity is only as good as the beliefs and issues that a diverse population contains?

BTW as a side note - keep saying Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor cause that just reinforces in people’s mind how Obama is viewed as a Messiah and shows the contempt leftists have for Jesus (basically implying that all he did was rabble the community). As well, I’m sure Palin would have killed Jesus had she been the governor at the time :areyoucra

 

[lilithu]

Issue: Illegal Immigration-

Illegal immigration is a serious problem. It is the modern slave trade system! The US hasn't stopped slavery it has just changed faces. I personally know people who hire illegal aliens for work and then do not pay them. Not only do these jackasses exploit honest good people out of work but they hurt honest competition by being able to not pay employees or employee benefits and other related costs. I have known people who do pay their illegal alien workers, but much less than minimum wage. This is just the beginning of the problem. When these people are brought to the US many times the people who agree to take them (AKA Coyotes) will threaten to call the police on them if they don’t work for almost free for years. Many women are also promised a good job only to be forced into prostitution, raped, and beaten until they comply and told if they try to escape their families will be killed. Many of these exploited slaves do not go to the police in fear that they will only be put in jail or shipped back home to poverty that makes the poorest in the US look like reasonable living. Having an illegal slave trade also involves the drug trade. A weak border lets criminals behead and kidnap people(an increasing phenomenon in the border states). And the drug trade in and of itself causes billions in damage to the criminal system and financial systems of this country. I can go on and on and on... but then no one would read this, if you want more information just look it up, there is tons out there.

So you see ... here is an issue that I strongly believe in. We should not exploit others for cheap labor.

OK, make that two things we agree on.

That being said... which party wants to do something about this?

The all wise and *DIVERSE* DNC? no - they don’t have nor talk about this issue as any priority, they do want to give illegal aliens voting rights to expand their diverse base. But any real solutions? no.

The RNC? a little better but not perfect. they want to and attempt to secure the border and want to help the service men and women who protect us. And have tried to come up with solutions (if you are interested at all I could so you where to look it up).

Dude, the Unitarian Universalists work on this issue, one of the few religious organizations that do.

We agree that the exploitation of undocumented workers is a problem. It is modern day slavery. We do not agree even on what to call it. I will not call it "illegal immigration" as you do; for all your expressed sympathies to their plight, you reinforce the idea that the immigrants are criminals. They are undocumented workers, people who work in the U.S. without proper documentation.

Secondly, what is the GOP's solution to securing the border? To build a friggin wall. We have 2,000 miles of border between the U.S. and Mexico and the administration is building a militarized wall, a ridiculous project at tax payer expense. $3.8 million per mile in California. And it's continuing to do so in Texas as we speak, even tho there is plenty of evidence that the wall does not work in Cali. The smugglers have even dug elaborate tunnels with lighting. All the wall has done is to make things even harder for the people who are crossing out of desperation, and make smugglers immensely richer. AND the DHS had waived THREE DOZEN federal, state, and local laws that protect our rights in order to build this inane wall in TX, even tho the local mayors all object, including the clean are and clean water acts, laws that protect sacred Native American sites, and laws that protect private citizens to their property. They're building their wall right through sacred grounds, wildlife sanctuaries, and people's ranches.

What also is the GOP's solution to securing the border? ICE raids. In cities across the country the department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement rounds up dozens of undocumented workers in massive, military style operations, then ships them off - often times separating parents from children who were at school. (Party of family values, my arse.) These raids terrify not only the undocumented workers and their families but also their neighbors.

It figures that the GOP's solution to this problem is to build a militarized wall with armed patrol, and to conduct militarized raids. It treats every problem like a war (ex, "War on Drugs"); war is the only thing it knows how to do, and that's why we are at war in Iraq right now and rattling our sabres at Iran.

Please do not try to claim that the GOP cares more about undocumented workers when it treats them like criminals.

If you want to deal with the problem of undocumented workers in this country, deal with the cause of the problem, do not wage war on the symptom and blame the victims. Our economic policies (read NAFTA) have devastated the economies of the countries to our south. People are flooding in to the U.S. (and I agree that it is a flood) because they are desperate. If you had no way to feed your family in your country, you would do whatever it takes too, including risking your life to cross a desert while dodging people with guns.