LDS Only : Can our bodies be possessed by the devil and his followers?

[madhatter85]

Still waiting on those quotes that show that they weren't really possessed. I'll be convinced once you present me with something from a general authority or prophet that states that man cannot be possessed. Until then.....

I'll be impressed when you prove that Heavenly Father does contradict himself... Untill then... let's just agree to disagree :angel2:

 

[Bishka]

I'll be impressed when you prove that Heavenly Father does contradict himself... Untill then... let's just agree to disagree :angel2:

Never said He contradicted Himself. You on the otherhand still haven't proven anything on this matter, as many prophet/apostles/leaders have stated that if you let yourself, you can be possessed. :yes:

 

[madhatter85]

Never said He contradicted Himself. You on the otherhand still haven't proven anything on this matter, as many prophet/apostles/leaders have stated that if you let yourself, you can be possessed. :yes:

Nor have you I don't care how many frubals you have.

I don't care how much you go around making threads to stir up crap regarding the things i say, it doesn't matter it's a forum, have fun at it

 

[FFH]

Nor have you I don't care how many frubals you have.

I don't care how much you go around making threads to stir up crap regarding the things i say, it doesn't matter it's a forum, have fun at it

True, we are all just trying to learn...

I have heard accounts of men who have gone on murder sprees and who have said they can't remember murdering anyone...

Same thing goes with drunks, when you drink, according to NDE's (near death experiences) I've heard and read, an evil spirit enters the body at the point in which you become completely drunk and the next morning there is no recollection of what went on after that, because the person was temporarily demon possessed, because they were intoxicated.

Same goes with drugs...

I know someone who was a drug dealer and he could tell who was on drugs because he could see evil spirits all around the person he was selling to....

Drunk drivers who kill people are demon possessed....

Druggies who steal, rape and murder are demon possessed.

Drugs and alcohol are the gateway for demons to enter in as is pre-marital sex, adultry, murder and other very serious sins...

The devil comes to, "steal, kill and destroy"...

 

[Bishka]

I don't care how much you go around making threads to stir up crap regarding the things i say, it doesn't matter it's a forum, have fun at it

As stated in the OP, this was not to stir up crap but to clarify a teaching/belief of the LDS Church and get others opinions on it. Before you accuse someone of something, please, get it right. Thank you.

 

[madhatter85]

As stated in the OP, this was not to stir up crap but to clarify a teaching/belief of the LDS Church and get others opinions on it. Before you accuse someone of something, please, get it right. Thank you.

how many threads have you personally started becaus of something i said?

 

[Bishka]

how many threads have you personally started becaus of something i said?

I have no clue, I'm not counting, are you?

 

[FFH]

how many threads have you personally started becaus of something i said?

Yeah, nothing gets past Becky...

 

[madhatter85]

Yeah, nothing gets past Becky...

Guess not

 

[FFH]

Scriptures state, Satan entered into Judas Iscariot just before the last supper...

These are inspired scripture, written by men, but inspired by God. How would the writer know at what time Satan entered into Judas and why would the writer state this at this point and not at some other point ???

God inspired those words, not men..

No man could witness this event, only God...

Luke 22
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

 

[madhatter85]

Scriptures state, Satan entered into Judas Iscariot just before the last supper...

These are inspired scripture, written by men, but inspired by God. How would the writer know at what time Satan entered into Judas and why would the writer state this at this point and not at some other point ???

God inspired those words, not men..

No man could witness this event, only God...

Luke 22
Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

With the cryptic nature of the bible, and with the superstitions of the people of that time, Is it not likely that when people say "entered Satan into Judas" meanign they saw a change in his disposition, that he was overcome with the influences of Satan? that it wasn't that he was "posessed" but he allowed himself to be influenced by Satan? If it was true "posession" of Judas, why would he be held accountable for his actions?

Satan is a very real being, his followers are very real, thier influences are very real, but demonic posession, especially as described in books and movies where children are turned into monsterous lookign creatures and flaoting in the air, climbing cielings, ect... is grossly innaccurate.

People seemingly "posessed" or "speakign in tounges" as some peopel think, things like "stigmata" and other things of that nature, can all be explained as influenced by Satan, if you are so far in-tune with Satan's powers he can tell you what to say, how to act, ect... but he cannot enter your physical body.

 

[FFH]

With the cryptic nature of the bible, and with the superstitions of the people of that time, Is it not likely that when people say "entered Satan into Judas" meanign they saw a change in his disposition, that he was overcome with the influences of Satan? that it wasn't that he was "posessed" but he allowed himself to be influenced by Satan? If it was true "posession" of Judas, why would he be held accountable for his actions?

Satan is a very real being, his followers are very real, thier influences are very real, but demonic posession, especially as described in books and movies where children are turned into monsterous lookign creatures and flaoting in the air, climbing cielings, ect... is grossly innaccurate.

People seemingly "posessed" or "speakign in tounges" as some peopel think, things like "stigmata" and other things of that nature, can all be explained as influenced by Satan, if you are so far in-tune with Satan's powers he can tell you what to say, how to act, ect... but he cannot enter your physical body.

The words of the King James are over 90 percent correct, I've compared the entire Joseph Smith translation with the King James and these particular scriptures dealing with devils/demons are not in error...

Mark 16: 9
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he (Jesus) had cast seven devils.

Luke 8: 2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

 

[Aqualung]

Madhatter, you specifically quoted something that denies what you are trying to say:

The devil's retaliation is, he comes into this world, binds up men's bodies and occupies them himself.

And your response is:

Sigh... overeggagerations regarding the posessing of bodies.

So, basically (let me make sure I have this right) every single thing in the multitudes of scripture and teachings of the prophets that state that devils can possess bodies is an exageration or supperstition? Is that your point? Because if that is, then no amount of quotes to the contrary is going to change that, since it's basically unfalsifiable (your word against theirs).

 

[Aqualung]

It's called reason and common sense, God does not contradict himself.

What has he said that contradicts demonic possession?

 

[Comprehend]

You're takign it wrong, times were different back then and there were still alot of influences about superstitions ect...

Those acts of being "frozen" and couldn't speak, were being scared of the feeling and presence of such an evil influence, Satan has no hold or control on the human body, he never had a body.

In the D&C, it talks about messengers that claim to be from God, if you extend your hand to them and they do nothing and continue with thier message, they are an angel. If they extend thier arm and youa re able to touch them and feel thier heavenly presence, they are translated or resurrected beings, if they extend thier hand and you feel nothing, they are not of god and should be cast out. they have no power over the flesh and they have no power over your mind. all they can do is tempt you with things that are real and are dangerous, it's always your choice to pick up the cigarette, to "take the next base", to take that drink, to say those words. It's always your choice.

you haven't actually read my post with the quotes yet have you...

 

[Comprehend]

Alvin R. Dyer, Who Am I?, p.235 - 236

Recognizing their unembodied condition, and their ultimate doom without a tabernacle of flesh and bone, evil spirits seek to take possession of the natural bodies of the sons and daughters of God, and even the bodies of animals. Scriptural accounts bear record of these attempts. All of this simply bears out the foreknowledge of God's design for man which these evil spirits have retained.


President Rudger Clawson, Conference Report, April 1939, Church of the Air Broadcast, p.118

Their eagerness to secure bodies is so great that in many cases they endeavor to steal the bodies of the more favored spirits, and when these evil spirits enter into and take possession of the bodies of others we say of those afflicted that they are possessed by evil spirits. They can only be subdued and cast out of stolen bodies by those members of Christ's Church who are under divine authority.


Legrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p.293

When Jesus had cast out the evil spirit from the man whom no man could bind with chains, he asked his name, and the spirit replied, "Legion: for we are many." (See Mark 5:2-9.) Upon being commanded to leave the body of the man who was possessed, the evil spirits asked the privilege of entering the bodies of swine feeding in the field, and when their request was granted, "the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea." (Mark 5:13.) It is so desirable to have a body that these evil spirits, who had forfeited the right to bodies of their own, were even willing to enter the bodies of swine.


The Contributor, Volume 7
A company of two hundred and forty-nine males, and two hundred and sixty-six females... in Kirtland, on the fifth of July, 1838; and the next day started for Missouri. The journey was long and tedious; many difficulties were encountered and obstacles overcome. A spirit of murmuring was frequently manifest, much sickness was among them, and because of their disobedience, evil spirits plagued them by getting possession of their bodies.


Evil Spirits Can Possess Bodies of Mortals
Alvin R. Dyer, The Meaning of Truth, rev. ed., p.149-150

...Another incident of noteworthy reference, giving some evidence of the number of evil spirits that roam the earth, concerns two maniacs who were sorely tormented by evil spirits. One of these at least, according to the Gospels, had been bound with fetters and chains, but, with demoniac power had broken them away and had fled to the mountains to live among the tombs like an animal. Night and day his weird and terrifying shrieks could be heard. Seeing Jesus, the poor creature ran toward and was prostrate before him, crying out with a loud voice:
What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God?

Jesus commanded the evil spirits to leave. One or more of them through the voice of the man, pleaded to be left alone, and with blasphemous presumption exclaimed:
I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not- Art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

The demons, by whom the man was possessed and controlled, recognized the Master, whom they knew they had to obey; but they pleaded to be left alone until the decreed time of their final punishment.



Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 1:, p.65

DEVILS STEAL BODIES. At times these fallen spirits steal possession of the bodies of men and women, overpowering the spirit who has rightful ownership. They realize what they have lost and are willing, when opportunity is given them, of possessing bodies of lower animals, so anxious are they to be clothed with flesh even for a season. On one occasion a legion of these evil spirits, when cast out by the Lord, asked the privilege of entering the bodies of a herd of swine. Out of Mary Magdalene the Lord cast seven devils. These evil spirits know the Lord from the knowledge and experience they obtained in the heavens before their banishment for rebellion. They called him by name when he disturbed them in their stolen habitations, saying: "Thou art Christ the Son of God, . . . for they knew that he was Christ."

MH - just in case you forgot where the quotes I provided were, here they are. Could you please explain why each of these quotes are incorrect?

Also, when Jesus was talking to the evil spirits and they said they knew who he was, could you explain how a seizure can talk?

 

[weeman2682]

Hi folks iam epileptic and through history i would have been burned at the stake accused of being possesed etc but i think the possesions the bible talks about are epilepsy or other seizure conditions thats just me. When i take a seizure i take violent ones were i fling myself of chairs over the bed and i always end up in hospital with injurys i also make weird noises and my eyes roll back, when i ask my partner who is a roman catholic she says with the seizures i have it easy to see how they could think your body was being controlled by somthing evil. Also when i come round once its past i have absolutly no memory of what happened and i dont know were iam or who my partner or son is which only lasts a few mins. This could also be looked at as the entity leaving the body