Leaving Christianity

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.

Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern

1. X is true for A.
2. X is true for B.
3. Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.

Every cult/religion has its founders.
Every cult/religion has its followers who revere the founder.
Every cult/religion has its followers who believe their cult/religion is the only real true cult/religion that has ever existed. That is not a hasty generalization, that is an acknowledgement of historical facts.

You are right. It is only a hasty generalization to conclude that they are all the same because that all had all of the above. My point is that a new one could be different so it is a hasty generalization to say that is not possible unless you have looked at the new one.

Trailblazer said: For example, if a person travels through a town for the first time and sees 10 religions, all of them the same, they may erroneously conclude that all religions are the same.

For example, if a person reads and understands the history of religions they will correctly conclude that all religions are the same.
Every cult/religion has its founders.
Every cult/religion has its followers who revere the founder.
Every cult/religion has its followers who believe their cult/religion is the only real true cult/religion that has ever existed.

If you have a point to make please make it... Is there a therefore?

Trailblazer said: I was referring to real cults like Jim Jones and others that were based upon false prophets. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are not cults; they are religions. They were all special in their day but their dispensations have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

So, 150 or so years ago a guy comes along and says "those other religions are all wrong, believe me when I tell you my religion is right and will last forever."

And you believe it!

STRAW MAN. I did not say those religions are all wrong. They are just out of date. They have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

STRAW MAN. I never said my religion will last forever. Another Prophet will come in the future and establish another religion and that process will continue for eternity..

I did not just believe it without thoroughly checking it out.

Trailblazer said: In short, their shelf life has expired owing to the passage of time. This is a New Age of mankind and their message is no longer pertinent for this day and their social teachings and laws needed updating.

Out with the old, in with the new. That's the same line of BS all the other prophets used.

And so what does that prove? It proves it was true, each successive Prophet abrogated the previous religion... Out with the old and in with the new is just how God works.

Trailblazer said: Calling me ignorant is not going to get you any closer to learning anything yourself.

ig·no·rant
ˈiɡnərənt/
adjective
...lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.

I wasn't trying to insult you. But it is obvious that you lack an understanding of religions.

You cannot possibly know that by a few things I have written. You are making assumptions, facts not in evidence. I know a lot about religions, although maybe not the stuff you know... Likewise I know some stuff you do not know, so we are square.

Trailblazer said: You cannot know it is BS unless you have looked at it.

Have you thoroughly studied the writings of all of the hundreds of religions? If you haven't, then you cannot know that your religion is the true religion.

You are wrong about that. I do not need to look at all the other religions to know that my religion is the one for this day in history, the fulfillment of all the past religions. Why would I want to ditch a brand new Mercedes someone gave me and go a car lot and buy an older car? It just does not make any logical sense.

Trailblazer said: “If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!”
Paris Talks, p. 103

See above.

I do not see your point. If you have not checked out the Baha’i Faith you cannot possibly know anything about it. That was my point. In that case you are ignorant of the Baha’i Faith, lacking an understanding of the religion. How can you possibly know about something you never looked at?

 

[Trailblazer]

Terry Johns said: Just finished reading an amazing bool: "Leaving Christianity to Follow Jesus" By James Jones

A great read for all those who are keen to follow the teachings of Christ but are sick of all the religious bull **** in the Church. RECOMMENDED.

https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Christianity-Follow-Jesus-Revolution/dp/099764110X

My question would be, Why would a person need to leave Christianity to follow Jesus.

I'm a Christian, I don't go to any church nor do I belong to any religious organization.

But I follow Christ Jesus.

For Jesus did say, that many would come saying I am Christ.
You do know that Christ is abbreviated for Christian.
Christ = Christian

Therefore when a person say they are leaving Christianity, in fact they are leaving Christ Jesus.

The whole reason of being a Christian is
to come under the name of Christ, being a follower of Christ Jesus.

As Jesus said, for many shall come in my name saying I am Christ = Christian.

The whole foundation of being a Christian, is being a follower of Christ Jesus.

The simple answer to why anyone would want to leave is that Christianity does not represent what Jesus taught. Christianity is a bunch of Church doctrines that were concocted by the Church. The Church was The False Prophets

A person can believe in Jesus and not believe in the Church doctrines.

When Jesus said that many would come in my name saying I am Christ He meant that many false prophets would come claiming to be the “return” of Christ. Jesus was not referring to Christians. Christ = Jesus and Christians = followers of Jesus.

 

[ecco]

They are just out of date. They have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

Since the Revelations of Baha’u’llah many other religions have been founded. Have you checked them out?

I never said my religion will last forever. Another Prophet will come in the future and establish another religion...

Maybe it has already happened.

And so what does that prove? It proves it was true, each successive Prophet abrogated the previous religion... Out with the old and in with the new is just how God works.

So, you better start investigating all the newer religions and their Prophets.

You are wrong about that. I do not need to look at all the other religions to know that my religion is the one for this day in history, the fulfillment of all the past religions. Why would I want to ditch a brand new Mercedes someone gave me and go a car lot and buy an older car? It just does not make any logical sense.
Your "Mercedes" is vintage 1850. There a lot of newer "cars" out there now.

I do not see your point. If you have not checked out the Baha’i Faith you cannot possibly know anything about it. That was my point. In that case you are ignorant of the Baha’i Faith, lacking an understanding of the religion. How can you possibly know about something you never looked at?

I read the "message" of the Prophet. It's no different than messages from "Prophets" who preceded him and those who have come more recently. I guess it was just luck you missed out on Heaven's Gate and Branch Davidians.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: They are just out of date. They have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah.

Since the Revelations of Baha’u’llah many other religions have been founded. Have you checked them out?

There have been no Revelations from God since Baha’u’llah so whatever people are calling religions are not really religions:

“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81

Trailblazer said: I never said my religion will last forever. Another Prophet will come in the future and establish another religion...

Maybe it has already happened.

No, I know it has not happened because it cannot happen ere the expiration or 1000 years from when Baha’u’llah declared His mission in 1852; so there cannot be another religion until at least 2852 AD:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

Trailblazer said: And so what does that prove? It proves it was true, each successive Prophet abrogated the previous religion... Out with the old and in with the new is just how God works.

So, you better start investigating all the newer religions and their Prophets.

There are no newer religions or newer prophets. As the passage above says, anyone who made such a claim is a lying imposter.

Trailblazer said: You are wrong about that. I do not need to look at all the other religions to know that my religion is the one for this day in history, the fulfillment of all the past religions. Why would I want to ditch a brand new Mercedes someone gave me and go a car lot and buy an older car? It just does not make any logical sense.

Your "Mercedes" is vintage 1850. There a lot of newer "cars" out there now.

No, there are no newer cars, just a bunch of junkers, false religions claiming they came from God.

I do not see your point. If you have not checked out the Baha’i Faith you cannot possibly know anything about it. That was my point. In that case you are ignorant of the Baha’i Faith, lacking an understanding of the religion. How can you possibly know about something you never looked at?
I read the "message" of the Prophet. It's no different than messages from "Prophets" who preceded him and those who have come more recently. I guess it was just luck you missed out on Heaven's Gate and Branch Davidians.

What message is that? The message of Baha’u’llah is much different from anything that has ever been written before. For example:

“The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure. Our hope is that the world’s religious leaders and the rulers thereof will unitedly arise for the reformation of this age and the rehabilitation of its fortunes. Let them, after meditating on its needs, take counsel together and, through anxious and full deliberation, administer to a diseased and sorely-afflicted world the remedy it requireth…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 215-216

 

[ecco]

There have been no Revelations from God since Baha’u’llah so whatever people are calling religions are not really religions: For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81
No, I know it has not happened because it cannot happen ere the expiration or 1000 years from when Baha’u’llah declared His mission in 1852; so there cannot be another religion until at least 2852 AD:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

There are no newer religions or newer prophets. As the passage above says, anyone who made such a claim is a lying imposter.

No, there are no newer cars, just a bunch of junkers, false religions claiming they came from God.

What message is that? The message of Baha’u’llah is much different from anything that has ever been written before. For example:

“The Great Being saith: O ye children of men! The fundamental purpose animating the Faith of God and His Religion is to safeguard the interests and promote the unity of the human race, and to foster the spirit of love and fellowship amongst men. Suffer it not to become a source of dissension and discord, of hate and enmity. This is the straight Path, the fixed and immovable foundation. Whatsoever is raised on this foundation, the changes and chances of the world can never impair its strength, nor will the revolution of countless centuries undermine its structure. Our hope is that the world’s religious leaders and the rulers thereof will unitedly arise for the reformation of this age and the rehabilitation of its fortunes. Let them, after meditating on its needs, take counsel together and, through anxious and full deliberation, administer to a diseased and sorely-afflicted world the remedy it requireth…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 215-216

So, your prophet said he's the true messenger of god and you believe him.
So, your prophet said it's gotta be at least 1000 years between prophets and revelations and you believe him.

Other than him saying so, what evidence do you have?




ETA: Please do not put your comments into the boxes where you quote my comments.

 

[Trailblazer]

So, your prophet said he's the true messenger of god and you believe him.
So, your prophet said it's gotta be at least 1000 years between prophets and revelations and you believe him.

Other than him saying so, what evidence do you have?.

The evidence that indicates that He was a Prophet of God is as follows:

• What He was like as a person (His character);
• What He did during His mission on earth;
• The history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward;
• The scriptures that were attributed to Him or scriptures that He wrote;
• What others have written about Him;
• The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming,
• The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by His coming;
• The predictions He made that have come to pass;
• The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

ETA: Please do not put your comments into the boxes where you quote my comments.

I apologize. I have not been posting on this forum for very long and I am not that familiar with the way it works. We do not have quote boxes on the forum I came from but rather we usually carry over what the person said so others can more easily follow the conversations.

 

[ecco]

The evidence that indicates that He was a Prophet of God is as follows:
<snip>

• The predictions He made that have come to pass;

Such as?

I apologize. I have not been posting on this forum for very long and I am not that familiar with the way it works. We do not have quote boxes on the forum I came from but rather we usually carry over what the person said so others can more easily follow the conversations.

OK

 

[Trailblazer]

Such as?
OK

In this book is a list of 30 things that Baha’u’llah predicted that actually came to pass:
The Challenge of Baha'u'llah

 

[ecco]

Such as?

In this book is a list of 30 things that Baha’u’llah predicted that actually came to pass:
The Challenge of Baha'u'llah

Do you really expect me to read a book? Just post a short excerpt showing one of the predictions.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you really expect me to read a book? Just post a short excerpt showing one of the predictions.

Okay, I can do that, but you might not like the one I pick.

 

[Trailblazer]

Do you really expect me to read a book? Just post a short excerpt showing one of the predictions.

O KING of Berlin! Give ear unto the Voice calling from this manifest Temple: Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Everlasting, the Peerless, the Ancient of Days. Take heed lest pride debar thee from recognizing the Dayspring of Divine Revelation, lest earthly desires shut thee out, as by a veil, from the Lord of the Throne above and of the earth below. Thus counselleth thee the Pen of the Most High. He, verily, is the Most Gracious, the All-Bountiful. Do thou remember the one whose power transcended thy power (Napoleon III), and whose station excelled thy station. Where is he? Whither are gone the things he possessed? Take warning, and be not of them that are fast asleep. He it was who cast the Tablet of God behind him, when We made known unto him what the hosts of tyranny had caused Us to suffer. Wherefore, disgrace assailed him from all sides, and he went down to dust in great loss. Think deeply, O King, concerning him, and concerning them who, like unto thee, have conquered cities and ruled over men. The All-Merciful brought them down from their palaces to their graves.Be warned, be of them who reflect… O banks of the Rhine! We have seen you covered with gore, inasmuch as the swords of retribution were drawn against you; and you shall have another turn. And We hear the lamentations of Berlin, though she be today in conspicuous glory.
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 39

 

[ecco]

O KING of Berlin! Give ear unto the Voice calling from this manifest Temple: Verily, there is none other God but Me, the Everlasting, the Peerless, the Ancient of Days. Take heed lest pride debar thee from recognizing the Dayspring of Divine Revelation, lest earthly desires shut thee out, as by a veil, from the Lord of the Throne above and of the earth below. Thus counselleth thee the Pen of the Most High. He, verily, is the Most Gracious, the All-Bountiful. Do thou remember the one whose power transcended thy power (Napoleon III), and whose station excelled thy station. Where is he? Whither are gone the things he possessed? Take warning, and be not of them that are fast asleep. He it was who cast the Tablet of God behind him, when We made known unto him what the hosts of tyranny had caused Us to suffer. Wherefore, disgrace assailed him from all sides, and he went down to dust in great loss. Think deeply, O King, concerning him, and concerning them who, like unto thee, have conquered cities and ruled over men. The All-Merciful brought them down from their palaces to their graves.Be warned, be of them who reflect… O banks of the Rhine! We have seen you covered with gore, inasmuch as the swords of retribution were drawn against you; and you shall have another turn. And We hear the lamentations of Berlin, though she be today in conspicuous glory.
Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p, 39

OMG! WOW! In 1850 he "predicted" that Germany would someday be in a war! How prescient!


In 1566 Nostradamus "allegedly" predicted the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks

Did Nostradamus Really Predict the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks?

Two steel birds will fall from the sky on the Metropolis / The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude / Fire approaches the great new city / Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up / Within months, rivers will flow with blood / The undead will roam the earth for little time."​

Some people will believe anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

OMG! WOW! In 1850 he "predicted" that Germany would someday be in a war! How prescient!


In 1566 Nostradamus "allegedly" predicted the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks

Did Nostradamus Really Predict the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks?

Two steel birds will fall from the sky on the Metropolis / The sky will burn at forty-five degrees latitude / Fire approaches the great new city / Immediately a huge, scattered flame leaps up / Within months, rivers will flow with blood / The undead will roam the earth for little time."​

Some people will believe anything.

You asked for one prediction and I gave you one... I predicted that was going to be your response.

No, there was absolutely no reason to think that Germany would be in two world wars when because Germany was in conspicuous glory when that Tablet was written.

Predictions Prophets made certainly are not the best proof of a Prophet... No, I won’t believe anything because if I would be just any religion, but I would not be any other religion but Baha’i, since it is the only one that makes any sense and has good evidence.

 

[Muffled]

Just finished reading an amazing bool: "Leaving Christianity to Follow Jesus" By James Jones

A great read for all those who are keen to follow the teachings of Christ but are sick of all the religious bull **** in the Church. RECOMMENDED.

https://www.amazon.com/Leaving-Christianity-Follow-Jesus-Revolution/dp/099764110X

I believe Jesus ordained the Church so avoiding it is not an option. Following churches' precepts is a different matter.

 

[Trackdayguy]

I believe Jesus ordained the Church so avoiding it is not an option. Following churches' precepts is a different matter.

Can you help me out here by defining what you mean by the church