Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Differences are not negative.
De ja vu.
Dont think we ever want to meet in person. If I say something contary to your beliefs, youd show me the door and say "be well and be happy".
Dont understand the connection.
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Leaving Christianity
- Thread starter Trackdayguy
- Start date
Differences are not negative.
De ja vu.
Dont think we ever want to meet in person. If I say something contary to your beliefs, youd show me the door and say "be well and be happy".
Dont understand the connection.
Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
I hope so.
It does make sense.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Those are essentially the goals of the Baha’i Faith.Trailblazer said: How would that work though, in the real world? How would that bring people together if everyone went their own way and did their own thing and believed something different?
Well, taking away the differences between them would surely be a start - and then we can all work on the necessary bits to ensure that we were all on the same page - that is, humans on the one planet,
And aiming towards a fairer society for all might even improve matters considerably - so perhaps a world government beckons - not that this is remotely on the cards at the moment.
Yes, it might take that...
“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
- No, not just like any of those... None of them came to usher in a New Age of mankind. Not one of them even made such a claim.
Sometimes history does not repeat itself. That does not mean I have a poor understanding of history. It simply means that this is a New Age and history will never repeat itself again... That is why it is called “New.”
I did not mean that God did what humans are doing. I meant that God is responsible for sending Baha’u’llah who ushered in the New Age and releasing the Holy Spirit into the world, thereby making it possible for man to make these changed.
ecco
Veteran Member
Guided in the love of god? You can read the paragraph I quoted above and you see guiding in love?
- They must be treated
- They must be educated
- They must be trained
- Everything must be done
All in the name of a god's love.
It really sounds like something from the days of the Spanish Inquisition - They must be Converted.
It really sounds like Luther talking about the Jews - They must be converted.
Of course when treating and education and training don't work, there is always extermination. That's what your religion is preaching. You are OK with it just like the inquisitors and Luthers followers were OK with it.
ecco
Veteran Member
As I said, your knowledge of history and religion are sadly lacking...
John 8:12 Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
When it comes to cults, history continually repeats itself. A cult begins, some people get disillusioned, another cult pops up. Again and again and again ad nauseam.
In the time since your religious cult was founded in 1863 there have been hundreds of other religious cults founded.
But, yeah, yours is different and special and true and right. Uh huh.
That's what the members of the Peoples Temple and the members of Heavens Gate also believed.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There is nothing in that verse about ushering in a New Age of mankind. Jesus said we were not ready for that back then:
John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Baha’u’llah was the Spirit of truth who came to bring the many things and guide us unto all truth, thus the New Age has arrived.
It is different and special and true and right , but you will never know because of your confirmation bias and hasty generalizations.
The thing is that cults do not last and continue to grow as the Baha'i Faith has clearly done.
Which has nothing at all to do with the Baha’i Faith because they had no Prophet like Baha’u’llah. As Jesus said you shall know them by their fruits. That is the dead giveaway.
Faithofchristian
Well-Known Member
My question would be, Why would a person need to leave Christianity to follow Jesus.
I'm a Christian, I don't go to any chruch nor do I belong to any religious organization.
But I follow Christ Jesus.
For Jesus did say, that many would come saying I am Christ.
You do know that Christ is abbreviated for Christian.
Christ = Christian
Therefore when a person say they are leaving Christianity, in fact they are leaving Christ Jesus.
The whole reason of being a Christian is
to come under the name of Christ, being a follower of Christ Jesus.
As Jesus said, for many shall come in my name saying I am Christ = Christian.
The whole foundation of being a Christian, is being a follower of Christ Jesus.
Trackdayguy
Speed doesn't kill, it's hitting the wall
Those are essentially the goals of the Baha’i Faith.
Yes, it might take that...
“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119
I think the whole idea of world peace is an extraordinary idea, but sadly its a pipe dream. Lets just say everyone on the planet was on the same page, and there were just 50 people who wanted to have things their way, Hitler, and the likes.... What do we do with them, didn't take Hitler long to take over Europe.
Sorry its a pipe dream.
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ecco
Veteran Member
Every religion/cult had/has a "guide":Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, etc etc.
Either you are ignorant of the facts of history, or you intentionally ignore them because you want to feel special.
Every religion/cult had/has said their thing "is different and special and true and right". It's kinda hard to start a cult/religion by saying "uh, we got nuttin new and your old prophet is just as good as our new one". Either you are ignorant of the facts of history, or you intentionally ignore them because you want to feel special.
Wrong again: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Scientology, Mormon. Either you are ignorant of the facts of history, or you intentionally ignore them because you want to feel special.
See above.
Either you are ignorant of the facts of history, or you intentionally ignore them because you want to feel special.
You, and your beliefs and hopes, are no different from anyone else who has become enthralled with a cult/religion, it's teachers, it's writings and it's philosophies. You all believe your stuff "is different and special and true and right". It's not. It's just more of the same old nonsensical BS.
Riders
Well-Known Member
I have been to say I have been to Bahai class on second life. I no longer am on second life. They were pretty nice to me. But when me and one other visitor got into a discussion about weather Bahais accept people into their religion and be able to visit other religions like Universalists do it does seem that they were going round and round with saying why would you go to another service when everything you need is here.
But you guys do seem nice. I've considered it. I think Bahais Bahaulah is the same person as Jesus Christ as well as Hare Krishna and Buddha and others.
To be fair, that doesn't apply to primal indigenous religions which lack founders. These prophet and guru cults are rsther new in history and the odd ones out. Shame they're so popular.
Nor does it apply to Hinduism which has no founder. Certain Guru cults within 'Hinduism' are indeed another matter, but most of them distance themselves from Hinduism, and many Hindus distance themselves from them.To be fair, that doesn't apply to primal indigenous religions which lack founders. These prophet and guru cults are rsther new in history and the odd ones out. Shame they're so popular.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Well, at least you like the idea, that's a start...
Well, there are plans in place to take care of things like that and I am sure the other Baha'is on here would know more about those than I do. I have been a Baha'i for 47 years, but I kind of laid low for about 42 years of that, a long story why, and so I am having to learn a lot of things now that I had never learned before. But I do know the following passage that explains the principle of people banding together for the good of the whole:
“The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny…The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language and one common script. When this is achieved, to whatsoever city a man may journey, it shall be as if he were entering his own home. These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action…. That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 249-250
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Every religion had a guide but only the Baha’i Faith has Baha’u’llah, who was the Promised One of all ages, the Messiah, the return promised in all the religions of the past.
But that does not mean that there is not one that was different. To say that is the Fallacy of Hasty Generalization
Hasty generalization is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence—essentially making a hasty conclusion without considering all of the variables.
Hasty generalization usually shows this pattern
- X is true for A.
- X is true for B.
- Therefore, X is true for C, D, etc.
Hasty generalization - Wikipedia
For example, if a person travels through a town for the first time and sees 10 religions, all of them the same, they may erroneously conclude that all religions are the same.
I was referring to real cults like Jim Jones and others that were based upon false prophets. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are not cults; they are religions. They were all special in their day but their dispensations have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. In short, their shelf life has expired owing to the passage of time. This is a New Age of mankind and their message is no longer pertinent for this day and their social teachings and laws needed updating.
“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
Scientology is not a religion. It is a business. Mormonism is based upon Christianity so it is an offshoot.
Prophets and their religions either had good fruits or bad fruits. That is how you know if they were from God or not. Good fruits = God.
Calling me ignorant is not going to get you any closer to learning anything yourself. In psychology that is called deflection. Logically speaking, the Baha’i Faith is both new and different or not. The Baha’i Faith is either the religion for this age in history or Baha’u’llah lied and was a false prophet who started a false religion... It is a or b, it cannot be both a and b... you pick. It is not special, it is just new. ALL religions were special when they were the current religion, the ONE God revealed for that age in history... After that, they were abrogated by the next religion God revealed. That is called Progressive Revelation.
Keep talking and saying the same thing over and over and over again... Your opinion won’t change reality because it is whatEVER it is.
You cannot know it is BS unless you have looked at it.
“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!”
Paris Talks, p. 103
ecco
Veteran Member
I disagree. Someone had to be first to bow down to the campfire after eating a few mushrooms and then state solemnly "Come on guys, show a little respect - the fire has been good to us".
It's just we have no way of knowing who.
That assumes that religion is really some sort of fraud that a person convinces others to partake in. Evolutionary science does not support that as the root of religious behavior.
Evolutionary origin of religions - Wikipedia
ecco
Veteran Member
- Every cult/religion has its founders.
- Every cult/religion has its followers who revere the founder.
- Every cult/religion has its followers who believe their cult/religion is the only real true cult/religion that has ever existed.
For example, if a person reads and understands the history of religions they will correctly conclude that all religions are the same.
- Every cult/religion has its founders.
- Every cult/religion has its followers who revere the founder.
- Every cult/religion has its followers who believe their cult/religion is the only real true cult/religion that has ever existed.
So, 150 or so years ago a guy comes along and says "those other religions are all wrong, believe me when I tell you my religion is right and will last forever."
And you believe it!
Out with the old, in with the new. That's the same line of BS all the other prophets used.
ig·no·rant
ˈiɡnərənt/
adjective
...lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.
I wasn't trying to insult you. But it is obvious that you lack an understanding of religions. ˈiɡnərənt/
adjective
...lacking knowledge, information, or awareness about something in particular.
Have you thoroughly studied the writings of all of the hundreds of religions? If you haven't, then you cannot know that your religion is the true religion.
See above.
ecco
Veteran Member
Not necessarily a fraud.
I'm sure they guy eating the mushrooms while staring into the fire really believed the visions he was experiencing.
I'm inclined to believe that Mohammed really did go out in the desert and hear voices.
I'm not so inclined to believe L. Ron Hubbard.
Regardless of the fundamental aspects of "belief", there always had to be people promoting one or another aspect - hence "religion".
Religion itself isn't something to have a single founder. It's a property of social behavior.